Evidence that homosexuality is wrong..?

[RMDY]

Isaiah 53

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken. [b]
He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life [d] and be satisfied [e] ;
by his knowledge [f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, [g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong, [h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Footnotes:

1. Isaiah 53:8 Or From arrest
2. Isaiah 53:8 Or away. / Yet who of his generation considered / that he was cut off from the land of the living / for the transgression of my people, / to whom the blow was due?
3. Isaiah 53:10 Hebrew though you make
4. Isaiah 53:11 Dead Sea Scrolls (see also Septuagint Masoretic Text does not have the light of life .
5. Isaiah 53:11 Or (with Masoretic Text) 11 He will see the result of the suffering of his soul / and be satisfied
6. Isaiah 53:11 Or by knowledge of him
7. Isaiah 53:12 Or many
8. Isaiah 53:12 Or numerous

 

[RMDY]

want more?


See, these things were fulfilled, yet, the Jews didn't believe.
Did I ever mention that prophecy says the messiah was to be rejected by his own people?

 

[RMDY]

Concerning the Holy Spirit:
Joel 2:28-32 (fulfilled at Pentecost)

The Day of the LORD

"And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days.
I will show wonders in the heavens
and on the earth,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
And everyone who calls
on the name of the LORD will be saved;
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance,
as the LORD has said,
among the survivors
whom the LORD calls

 

[RMDY]

Theres more.
Prophecy is proof the my God exists.

 

[RMDY]

Isiah 41: 22-23,

22 "Bring in your idols to tell us
what is going to happen.
Tell us what the former things were,
so that we may consider them
and know their final outcome.
Or declare to us the things to come,
23 tell us what the future holds,
so we may know that you are gods.
Do something, whether good or bad,
so that we will be dismayed and filled with fear.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Theres more.
Prophecy is proof the my God exists.

First, none of these are true prophecies: I could systematically show how they are either self-fulfilling or unfulfilled (Immanuel? I thought he was called Jesus...).
Second, even if there was a true prophecy that was fulfilled, this is not proof that your god exists: merely proof that the prophecy is true. Just because it is ascribed to your god doesn't mean that it was your god.
Third, I consider your past 10+ posts to be spam, and have reported them as such.

If you want a reasonable discussion over the validity of your faith, I am more than happy to do so, but over PM. This thread is entitled 'Evidence that homosexuality is wrong..?', not 'Evangelising 101'.

 

[RMDY]

Jesus had many names. Immanuel means 'God with us'. Jesus means 'saviour'

 

[RMDY]

I also posted those passages for Ohioprof

 

[Ohioprof]

I also posted those passages for Ohioprof

Thank you, but I didn't read them. I don't subscribe to the Bible, and I'm not interested in hearing Bible quotations. Please do not waste your time.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Jesus had many names. Immanuel means 'God with us'. Jesus means 'saviour'

Actually, Jesus was only ever referred to once as Immanuel (Matthew 1:18-23), and that is just to fulfill the prophecy: if the prophecy hadn't been made, then Matthew would never have mentioned the word 'Immanuel'.
Self-fulfilling prophecies are hardly indicative of a divine presence.

 

[razzendahcuben]

You've stacked the deck in your favor. When you demand that Bible be left out of it then of course you can't prove that homosexuality is a sin. But the same is true with murder. If there is no moral authority then how can you say that murder is a sin? Its sad to see that the Bible is not your authority.

 

[Ohioprof]

You've stacked the deck in your favor. When you demand that Bible be left out of it then of course you can't prove that homosexuality is a sin. But the same is true with murder. If there is no moral authority then how can you say that murder is a sin? Its sad to see that the Bible is not your authority.

Why is it sad? The Bible is not many people's authority. That does not mean that people have no moral code. I draw my moral code from various sources, including the teachings of Jesus as best I can discern what those teachings were.

Murder is wrong because it results in the death of another person. And if there is that of God in every person, then we have no right to take the life of another person intentionally. You don't need the Bible to tell you that.

Being gay, on the other hand, harms no one. The ONLY reason people have for calling being gay a "sin" is because of their interpretation of the Bible. If we use the more widely accepted standard of doing no harm, then being gay, and living within a committed partnership with a spouse of the same sex, does no harm to anyone. Therefore, it's not a sin.

It's true that you cannot debate with me what is a sin on the basis of the Bible, because I don't use the Bible as my basis for deciding what is right or wrong.

 

[Jerrell]

1ti 1:9 With the knowledge that the law is made, not for the upright man, but for those who have no respect for law and order, for evil men and sinners, for the unholy and those who have no religion, for those who put their fathers or mothers to death, for takers of life,

1ti 1:10 For those who go after loose women, for those with unnatural desires (Homosexuals), for those who take men prisoners, who make false statements and false oaths, and those who do any other things against the right teaching,

2ti 2:22 But keep yourself from those desires of the flesh which are strong when the body is young, and go after righteousness, faith, love, peace, with those whose prayers go up to the Lord from a clean heart.

2ti 2:23 And put away foolish and uncontrolled questionings, seeing that they are a cause of trouble.

2ti 2:24 For it is not right for the Lord's servant to make trouble, but he is to be gentle to all, ready in teaching, putting up with wrong,

2ti 2:25 Gently guiding those who go against the teaching; if by chance God may give them a change of heart and true knowledge,

2ti 2:26 And so they may get themselves free from the net of the Evil One, being made the prisoners of the Lord's servant, for the purpose of God

 

[tulc]

You've stacked the deck in your favor. When you demand that Bible be left out of it then of course you can't prove that homosexuality is a sin. But the same is true with murder. If there is no moral authority then how can you say that murder is a sin? Its sad to see that the Bible is not your authority. (emph. added)

Uhmmm even atheists think murder is wrong.
tulc(just a thought)

 

[davedjy]

for those with unnatural desires (Homosexuals)

Homosexuality is a valid orientation in over 450 vertebrate species...hardly an "unnatural desire"!

 

[Wiccan_Child]

You've stacked the deck in your favor. When you demand that Bible be left out of it then of course you can't prove that homosexuality is a sin. But the same is true with murder. If there is no moral authority then how can you say that murder is a sin? Its sad to see that the Bible is not your authority.

Firstly, there are other alleged authorities one can turn to for moral guidance (the Qu'ran, the writings of the Bahá'u'lláh, etc).
Second, moral authorities are not required for one to have a moral code. I consider murder to be wrong, yet I acknolwedge no moral authority.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

[1ti 1:9-10, 2 ti 2:22-26]

Your argument rests on two presumptions:

1. That the Bible (specifically the above verses) is correct.
2. That 'unnatural desires' equates to homosexuality.

Can you support either of these presumptions?

 

[RMDY]

Thank you, but I didn't read them. I don't subscribe to the Bible, and I'm not interested in hearing Bible quotations. Please do not waste your time.

Actually, those are some prophecies the jewish people look at when they look for the Messiah, especially Isaiah53.

They are really important to know if you have faith in Jesus, even if your not a bible literalist.

 

[RMDY]

Actually, Jesus was only ever referred to once as Immanuel (Matthew 1:18-23), and that is just to fulfill the prophecy: if the prophecy hadn't been made, then Matthew would never have mentioned the word 'Immanuel'.
Self-fulfilling prophecies are hardly indicative of a divine presence.

Jesus was still God in the flesh: "God with us"
God in the O.T. also has many names, including "I am"
"The Lord"
"God Almighty"

It matters about the person. Names just attribute something to someone.

Abraham has two names: Abraham, Abram
When Abraham was first called to God, his name was Abram, but after God called him, he was called Abraham, especially by his decendants, the Israelites. Funny how no Israelite after Abrams death ever calls him Abram.

Just like Jesus, his name was Immanuel and "I am", but on earth, the angel told him to call him Jesus, which means something else.

God has many names. They attribute to something, but overall, its the same being.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Jesus was still God in the flesh: "God with us"
God in the O.T. also has many names, including "I am"
"The Lord"
"God Almighty"

It matters about the person. Names just attribute something to someone.

Abraham has two names: Abraham, Abram
When Abraham was first called to God, his name was Abram, but after God called him, he was called Abraham, especially by his decendants, the Israelites. Funny how no Israelite after Abrams death ever calls him Abram.

Just like Jesus, his name was Immanuel and "I am", but on earth, the angel told him to call him Jesus, which means something else.

God has many names. They attribute to something, but overall, its the same being.

You miss my point: he was prophecised to be called Immanuel. Not to be the Immanuel.