Evidence that homosexuality is wrong..?

[seekingpurity047]

Well... I think if people were born as homosexuals, then it proves that man is fallen and has a sinful nature. Furthermore, in Romans 1, why would Paul call it a shameless act? I think that's another thing we need to seriously consider.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Well... I think if people were born as homosexuals, then it proves that man is fallen and has a sinful nature.

With all due respect, what you think is not proof of anything.

Furthermore, in Romans 1, why would Paul call it a shameless act? I think that's another thing we need to seriously consider.

Shameless? Is that not a good thing?

 

[Ohioprof]

Well... I think if people were born as homosexuals, then it proves that man is fallen and has a sinful nature. Furthermore, in Romans 1, why would Paul call it a shameless act? I think that's another thing we need to seriously consider.

And maybe we should consider that Paul had his prejudices and hangups. We should not take what Paul said too seriously. Paul was not God.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

And maybe we should consider that Paul had his prejudices and hangups. We should not take what Paul said too seriously. Paul was not God.

But... but... he was inspired! Even though he had never seen Jesus...

 

[Ohioprof]

But... but... he was inspired! Even though he had never seen Jesus...

I have a bridge for sale....

 

[RMDY]

But... but... he was inspired! Even though he had never seen Jesus...

This is what my pastor had told me before:

Jesus did appear to him.

Apostles are only people who have seen Jesus.

 

[RMDY]

And maybe we should consider that Paul had his prejudices and hangups. We should not take what Paul said too seriously. Paul was not God.

You should take what Paul says seriously, especially about walking according to the Spirit.

 

[RMDY]

No. Punishing the child for the sins of the parent is obscene.


No.


No. I think he is evil for completely other reasons, but not for that. In the words of Dawkins, the god of the OT is "the most unpleasant character in all fiction ... a misogynist, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully". This a sentiment I agree with.

While we're on the subject of the 'sacrifice' of Jesus, could you explain to me exactly why God chose to sacrifice himself to himself in order to appease himself, and thus allow himself to lift in a roundabout fasion a punishment that he himself put in place?
It seems a bit sympotmatic of DID to me.

God atoned sins for us to draw us near to him, because he loved us that much.

 

[RMDY]

Adam did not exist. The Genesis story of the Garden is just a fable.

Do you believe anything exists? Do you believe that Jesus died for our sins and was raised from the dead and ascended to be seated up at the right side of God in heaven? Do you believe Jesus was the Son of God, the prophecised messiah who was to come over 400 years before he was born?
Do you believe?

 

[RMDY]

Do you believe that God so loved the world that he sent his only begotton Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

God atoned sins for us to draw us near to him, because he loved us that much.

But why did he sacrifice himself to himself? In his omnipotency, why not imbue us with the message and forgiveness he wanted us to know?

Do you believe anything exists? Do you believe that Jesus died for our sins and was raised from the dead and ascended to be seated up at the right side of God in heaven? Do you believe Jesus was the Son of God, the prophecised messiah who was to come over 400 years before he was born?
Do you believe?

Belief in the core tenants of Christianity does not require one to believe all the myths are literally true.

Do you believe that God so loved the world that he sent his only begotton Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life?

No. I do not believe Jesus existed, for there is no evidence of his existance, nor of the Resurrection, for the same reason. I do not believe in the God(s) of the Bible, for they are internally inconsistent.

But please, convince me otherwise.

 

[Ohioprof]

You should take what Paul says seriously, especially about walking according to the Spirit.

I do walk according to the spirit, as I understand the spirit.

Just because your pastor tells you something does not mean it is true. Do you believe everything ministers say just because they are ministers?

Do you think for yourself?

 

[Ohioprof]

But why did he sacrifice himself to himself? In his omnipotency, why not imbue us with the message and forgiveness he wanted us to know?


Belief in the core tenants of Christianity does not require one to believe all the myths are literally true.


No. I do not believe Jesus existed, for there is no evidence of his existance, nor of the Resurrection, for the same reason. I do not believe in the God(s) of the Bible, for they are internally inconsistent.

But please, convince me otherwise.

Here I differ a bit from you. I do think Jesus existed, though I don't know that for certain. I believe that most of what orthodox Christians believe about Jesus is just a lot of stories. I don't believe in a literal resurrection or a virgin birth or miracles.

 

[RMDY]

I do walk according to the spirit, as I understand the spirit.

Just because your pastor tells you something does not mean it is true. Do you believe everything ministers say just because they are ministers?

Do you think for yourself?

I believe what the Holy Spirit tells me.

And Wiccan, Jesus is not a myth. He lives!
He lives in all who believe.
Our bodies are the holy temple of God, dwelling within us, changing us, and renewing us day by day.

It is unfortunante you feel God is evil.
That is your stumbling block. You cannot see the love that he has for you. You cannot fathom how he can love you. You cannot fathom and understand how he is loving.

But this question also begs to be answered: If you discovered and came to believe God was loving and not evil, would you love him back?

We all stand in awe of God dying for us, who do not deserve it. God himself atoning for our sins. The cross is a mystery. God is a mystery. Jesus defies all nature with his miracles: A Virgin birth, turning water into wine, feeding thousands of people with only a few loaves of bread and a few fish, resurrecting the dead, walking on water, being resurrected by God himself. This defies all logic. If God is who he is, wouldn't he want to be extraodinary? Wouldn't God perform such miracles as signs that he is who he really is? We all ask: "Why can't God just do everything right there and then when Adam sinned?" But God has a plan. Just as creation didn't just happen over night, sinful man's reconcilation to God didn't happen over night either. A plan takes time to take effect. We are all like ants, we go about our daily buisness as our own bosses for the good of colony Mankind, working as we need to, doing what we do. We cannot comprehend God. He knows everything about us, but we don't know anything about him----except what has been revealed.

God does not dwell as rock and stone to be bowed down and worshipped as an image. The invisible, sovereign Father sent his Son, the image of God with all the fullness of God dwelling within him, to show us the way to the Father, to show us how to walk in Spirit and Truth, to show us what it means to really walk in love and follow God to everlasting eternal life.

 

[RMDY]

Here I differ a bit from you. I do think Jesus existed, though I don't know that for certain. I believe that most of what orthodox Christians believe about Jesus is just a lot of stories. I don't believe in a literal resurrection or a virgin birth or miracles.

Have you considered Isiah before? It had to happen to be the messiah.
The Jews looked to these signs to know who the Messiah was.
But because of their unbelieving hearts, looking for a King who would be like David, they saw with veiled eyes only an earthly idea of a King, and not a heavenly one.

Jesus is extraordinary and he dwells within you:

The same Spirit of God that resurrected Jesus dwells within you. If Jesus was not resurrected, then we are false witnesses about God and we have received no repetence for our sins.

 

[RMDY]

But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
1 Corinthians 15:12-19

 

[RMDY]

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Isaiah 7:14

Immanuel means God with us .

 

[RMDY]

Micah 5:2



2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans [a] of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins [b] are from of old,
from ancient times. [c] "

Footnotes:

1. Micah 5:2 Or rulers
2. Micah 5:2 Hebrew goings out
3. Micah 5:2 Or from days of eternity

 

[RMDY]

Jesus predicted to heal the sick:


[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Isaiah 53:4[/FONT]
Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]

[/FONT]

 

[RMDY]

Psalm 16:10
10 because you will not abandon me to the grave, [a]
nor will you let your Holy One [b] see decay.

1. Psalm 16:10 Hebrew Sheol
2. Psalm 16:10 Or your faithful one