Evidence for or against a creation instituted sabbath

[Cribstyl]

Great post Torah!!

I find history to be a fascinating accompaniment to scripture to allow us to see not only prophesy come to life but to provide context.

Is that a sabbatarian high five
Can I ask you with just 1 favor?
Can you please cut and paste any statement made by Torah, we can consider as EVIDENCE about a CREATION INSTITUDED SABBATH?

 

[Stryder06]

Dude, God commanded marriage in the DNA of man with these words.......(I wish the same was done with the sabbath.)
Gen 2:24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Jesus references these exact word in Genesis Chapter 2 confirming marriage as a creation ordinance
Mat 19:4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Mat 19:6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Mat 19:7They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
Mat 19:8He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Jesus words is EVIDENCE that the divorce commandment was not given at creation, but first given to Moses.
Are there other commandments we can say was first given at Sinai?

What theories are out there about the law before Sinai?

Jesus prove in other text that Angels dont marry so, Is that not EVIDENCE of marriage beginning with Adam and Eve?

You're proving my point crib. You're using, and rightfully so, deductive reasoning to prove that marriage existed in Eden, even though scripture doesn't "spell it out" i.e. "And God gave Eve to Adam as his wife and thus they were married..."

The same way you can see the marriage was obviously in eden is the same way we see the sabbath there. The seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God. It isn't about an institution, it simply is what it is. By nature the 7th day is the sabbath, that's just how it is.

What God requires of Christian is clearly written and told by many apostles in the scriptures. Sabbathkeeping was not one of them. Jesus tapped Peter to feed it, Stephen to die preaching it and Paul as an Apostle to the Gentiles to teach doctrines and James and John bares witness by letters.

This is where it's gonna get sticky for us. You think that God has a seperate set of rules for "christians". The first Christians were Jews. They never stopped keeping the ten commandments. You assume that because they didn't spell it out, that that must mean they didn't teach it at all. I don't make that assumption. I believe they knew that the law was unchangeable, and that God didn't put the 4th commandment in with the other ten, just for it to be excused away. Paul preaching in the synagogues to the gentiles, on the sabbath proves that somehow the gentiles knew the sabbath was a holy day. Add to that God saying that we will keep the sabbath in the new earth, and the blessing he pronounced to the gentiles in Isa, and you have a solid case, from the bible in regards to sabbath keeping.

 

[Torah]

Torah, thank you for participating in this thread.
Ive only read and looked into the part above so far. As you know we're looking for scriptual EVIDENCE of a CREATION INSTITUTED SABBATH.
You made two points...God set time in motion from evening, to morning then, the first day end at evening.
"mow`ed" meaning "seasons" as used in Gen 1:14. The same word is used for feast in 23 texts in the Entire Bible but Gen 1:14 is clearly not one of them.

I must disagree: From the Stone edition “The Chumash”-{translation from Hebrew) it reads. G-d said “let there be luminaries of the firmament of the heaven to separate between the day and the night: and they shall serve as signs, and for “festivals”, and for days and years;”

Gen 1:14
And God 430 said 559 , Let there be lights 3974 in the firmament 7549 of the heaven 8064 to divide 914 the day 3117 from the night 3915; and let them be for signs 226, and for seasons 4150, and for days 3117, and years 8141:​

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H4150&t=KJV

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) appointed place, appointed time, meeting
a) appointed time
1) appointed time (general)
2) sacred season, set feast, appointed season
b) appointed meeting
c) appointed place
d) appointed sign or signal
e) tent of meeting

Strong's Number H4150 matches the Hebrew מוֹעֵד (mow`ed), which occurs 223 times in 213 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV
Page 1 / 9 (Gen 1:14 - Exd 35:21)
http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

Result of search for "4150":
4150 mow`ed mo-ade' or moled {mo-ade'}; or (feminine) moweadah (2Chronicles 8:13) {mo-aw-daw'}; from 3259; properly, an appointment, i.e. a fixed time or season; specifically, a festival; conventionally a year; by implication, an assembly (as convened for a definite purpose); technically the congregation; by extension, the place of meeting; also a signal (as appointed beforehand):--appointed (sign, time), (place of, solemn) assembly, congregation, (set, solemn) feast, (appointed, due) season, solemn(-ity), synogogue, (set) time (appointed).

Jewish holiday (redirect from Moedim)
date August 2010 religion: For the Gregorian dates of Jewish Holidays, see Jewish holidays 2000-2050 . A Jewish holiday or festival is a day ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=MOEDIM&fulltext=Search

It seems clear that when the sun and moon was set in thier places by God, it was to govern times, days, months, and "seasons," meaning the atmosphere that comes 4 times of a year.

Originally Posted by Torah
NOW! Matthew 5:17-18 says “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, [The planetary structure / “MOEDIM” is still there. So nothing has changed] not thesmallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
In trying to follow your train of thought, I cant find the word for season or feasts in Matt 5:17-18
I think you're saying here that the Torah has not changed....please correct me.

The planetary structure: The “Heavens and Earth”as Yeshua said, are still here. Therefore The planetary structure points to and regulates the Festivals of G-d have not changed. Shabbat has not changed.

But how did the Greek / Gentiles change it to Sunday? Just look at History!

At the end of the book of Acts we are left with a picture of Christianity still in the cradle of Judaism, still a part of Judaism, a sect within it. Paul is left as a prisoner in the city of Rome and he is ministering to the believers in Rome. It is about the year 65 AD. Within two years, Paul goes to meet the Master when he is beheaded by Emperor Nero. A short time later, Peter too finds martyrdom in Rome when Nero has him crucified. Nero then added to his infamy by launching a massive military campaign against the Jewish state. He sent the dreaded 10th legion under the famous general Vespasian.

After Nero's death and Vespasian was made Emperor, his son Titus carried on the war by bringing the Roman army against Jerusalem.

The armies came and the believers fled. The city of Jerusalem was destroyed, the Temple was burned and the Jewish believers in Judea and Jerusalem either fled in exile to Transjordan or were carried off in captivity and sold as slaves along with their Jewish brothers and sisters.

The Church that was the Assembly of the Book of Acts, the Assembly of the Apostles, under James the Righteous ceased to be.

Previously, when questions of law and practice, or disputes of theology had arisen, we sent to Jerusalem to find a decision from the Apostles, the disciples and the elders at Jerusalem. After 70 there is no Jerusalem. There is no Jerusalem church. There is no Authority. No one is there to answer our questions.
Remember, there was still no New Testament for us to turn to. The Gospels had just been or were still being written. Paul's letters had not been compiled yet.John's epistles were not even written yet. Imagine our situation. What to do do?

Whoa, look what time it is, phew...we started at creation and walked right off the pages of the bible.

I am sorry that I come across so blunt, but I have found that when talking with people about scripture they have a Greek, western mind set and that they look at scripture with a Greek understanding. It is because of this History why most people don’t see scripture in the Jewish context that it was written in. You have walked off the page of the Bible 1800 years ago and don’t even realize it. I mean no disrespect.

 

[Cribstyl]

Torah is making a firm argument only based on a definition of a word "seasons" being a factor even before humanity or any living things was on earth.
My possition is that what happend on the 3rd of day of creation seem to explain the purpose of the sun and moon being the two great lights put in place to rule of the order of time. "Seasons" explained in most english bibles as a divison of times in a year.

Gen 1:14¶And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.

Here's EVIDENCE of what God meant about the seasons that He set in place at creation.




Gen 8:22While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.


Most of the European nations divide the year into four distinct parts, called quarters or seasons; but there are six divisions in the text, which obtained in Palestine among the Hebrews, and exist among the Arabs to the present day. According to this gracious promise, the heavenly bodies have preserved their courses, the seasons their successions, and the earth its increase for the use of man.

 

[Cribstyl]

You're proving my point crib. You're using, and rightfully so, deductive reasoning to prove that marriage existed in Eden, even though scripture doesn't "spell it out" i.e. "And God gave Eve to Adam as his wife and thus they were married..."

That's false, you're tilting the table over to make your point Stryder. You want to be correct that marriage is not spelled out in creation.

Rightly dividing the word should not "deductively reason out" anything that is written in the word.

The bible explains how God first brought animals to Adam looking for a mate for him.
The bible explains how two becomes one as if God joins them tegether.
The bible explains God's creation decree that man and woman is to multiply to populate the earth.
Need I say more about God's written plan for man and woman?(there's more)

The plan for keeping the Sabbath day Holy has no text I can post, it's not seen until Ex16.
The definition of "blessed" and "sanctified" does not of itself command humanty to do anything unless you take it's out of context and add words that God never said. Why should we consider God commanding men in text that tells us about what God created before entering into His rest?

The words "Sabbath day" does not come up until Ex16.

The first seven days of creation only tell us about what God Has done and nothing more is added. Man only fits in Gen 1-2:3 as His creation not His comrade. God is Spirit man is dirt....Hello

From Gen 2:4 on, the bible begins to tell us about God's plans for all His creation and His purpose for man. Why should I hear what God is commanding from another mouth but the writer of Genesis?

Gen2:4 take us back into God's creation days and explain Who (just 2people), how(from dirt), when(6th day) and what His creation commandments to man was. (treeofG&E) The bible in Genesis tells us why man was created,(keep garden) what man should eat,(veggie) what man should do(name all animals, have dominion of all creation)
Keeping the Sabbath does not come up as a creation commandment. (we dont rub it in your faces)

The same way you can see the marriage was obviously in eden is the same way we see the sabbath there. The seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God. It isn't about an institution, it simply is what it is. By nature the 7th day is the sabbath, that's just how it is.

You're revealing how your truth is found by human reasoning and what is written can be ignored.

This is where it's gonna get sticky for us. You think that God has a seperate set of rules for "christians". The first Christians were Jews. They never stopped keeping the ten commandments. You assume that because they didn't spell it out, that that must mean they didn't teach it at all.

What you and I reasonably deduce does not matter. What matters is, every word from the mouth of God.
The apostles do spell it out, they do teach it ....some people dont care to follow what's written.
Rather than apply it's teaching to understanding, they apply "words" to reasoning what they want to hear.

Act 15 does show us what was taught to the Gentiles also the Epistles of Paul to Gentile nations prove what was taught to Gentiles.

I don't make that assumption. I believe they knew that the law was unchangeable, and that God didn't put the 4th commandment in with the other ten, just for it to be excused away.

Paul preaching in the synagogues to the gentiles, on the sabbath proves that somehow the gentiles knew the sabbath was a holy day.

Add to that God saying that we will keep the sabbath in the new earth, and the blessing he pronounced to the gentiles in Isa, and you have a solid case, from the bible in regards to sabbath keeping.

We've looked into a few arguments and just like marriage you know there is scripture to support it. The fact that you can find once sentence about Keeping the Sabbath in creation is why you're trying to put a magnifying glass to question marriage.

 

[Torah]

Torah is making a firm argument only based on a definition of a word "seasons" being a factor even before humanity or any living things was on earth.
My possition is that what happend on the 3rd of day of creation seem to explain the purpose of the sun and moon being the two great lights put in place to rule of the order of time. "Seasons" explained in most english bibles as a divison of times in a year.

Gen 1:14¶And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.

Here's EVIDENCE of what God meant about the seasons that He set in place at creation.




Gen 8:22While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.


Most of the European nations divide the year into four distinct parts, called quarters or seasons; but there are six divisions in the text, which obtained in Palestine among the Hebrews, and exist among the Arabs to the present day. According to this gracious promise, the heavenly bodies have preserved their courses, the seasons their successions, and the earth its increase for the use of man.

Dear sir! If one word from the Creator will not convince you that his Moedim / festivals are not first and foremost part of his creative order. Then a thousand words will not convince you.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the [Torah] / law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

Shalom Ahlaychem

 

[Cribstyl]

Dear sir! If one word from the Creator will not convince you that his Moedim / festivals are not first and foremost part of his creative order. Then a thousand words will not convince you.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the [Torah] / law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

Shalom Ahlaychem

Respectfully, I look forward to summertime.
I like feasting too dont get me wrong,
God bless you too

Being able to disagree and showing love is an art I hope to master.........
Women seem to have that talent locked..... (most)

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Not wanting to seem like I'm taking sides against you Crib but I had to comment on the marraige analogy you and Stryder were discussing.

You say that becasue there is lots of verses that support man and woman being created for each other and commanded to procreate, that it assumes marriage. I couldn't help but think that all the verses you quoted to show marraige between a man and a woman could equally apply to men and women living together and not joined in marraige.

The Bible doesn't speak to the 'marraige' of Adam and Eve, we assume it. The assumption is solid because of the other scripture evidence we have and becasue we know the Fathers character and what He expects from His people... the seventh Commandment is key in this understanding of what He would have meant when He refered to the woman as a helpmate.

 

[Cribstyl]

Not wanting to seem like I'm taking sides against you Crib but I had to comment on the marraige analogy you and Stryder were discussing.

You say that becasue there is lots of verses that support man and woman being created for each other and commanded to procreate, that it assumes marriage. I couldn't help but think that all the verses you quoted to show marraige between a man and a woman could equally apply to men and women living together and not joined in marraige.

The Bible doesn't speak to the 'marraige' of Adam and Eve, we assume it. The assumption is solid because of the other scripture evidence we have and becasue we know the Fathers character and what He expects from His people... the seventh Commandment is key in this understanding of what He would have meant when He refered to the woman as a helpmate.

The truth about marriage is in black and white, not in deductive reasoning because creation Sabbath does not have one sentence to say that God commanded it.

If I'm not mistaken, a man is married when a preacher "repeats what is said in Gen 2...... "I now pronounce you man and wife" not I now pronounce you married".
Gen 2:24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Does the scripture calls Eve Adam's wife or not? Well there is no assumption on my part, I believe what's written.
Many a culture calls what the western world call "living together" marriage.

"Marriage was divinely established in the Garden of Eden and affirmed by Jesus to be a lifelong union between a man and a woman in loving companionship even though sin has perverted God's ideals for marriage and family."

Looking for a commandment to humanty in Genesis 1-2:3 does not make a lot of sense. The narrative tells us what God did each day of seven days.

Respectfully
CRIB

 

[Cribstyl]

The first place that we should look for what God wants us to know about what He did in the 7 days creation is the following scriptures.
Having people tell us about His law and 10commandments before God speaks to humanity is not what God had in mind according to the bible.




Gen 2:4 These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

(This is where 7 literal day can be challenged by saying; " God took generation to create the heavens and the earth")


Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground.
Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

(God formed man from dust of the earth.....God's breathe is the breathe of life that makes man a living soul)

Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
Gen 2:11 The name of the first [is] Pison: that [is] it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where [there is] gold;
Gen 2:12 And the gold of that land [is] good: there [is] bdellium and the onyx stone.
Gen 2:13 And the name of the second river [is] Gihon: the same [is] it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
Gen 2:14 And the name of the third river [is] Hiddekel: that [is] it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river [is] Euphrates.
Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

(God's purpose for man was to dress and keep the Garden of Eden)

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
(This is a commandments with the death penalty attached.
According to the narrative, God had not created woman as yet. It appears safe to say that God had not rested from all His work and the 7th day had not arrived yet. We can notice how verse 5 tells us about the time when nothing was planted yet. When God put man in the garden it appears that trees were ready with fruit to eat. We know that God can do anything, but He's talking about watering, planting and tilling not a magic beanstalk story) TIME IS IMPLIED BEFORE THE 7th DAY


Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
(Timeline important)
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof.
(Animals formed from the ground as man, they recieve no "breathe of life" to make them live".)
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

(The institution of mar... man and wify)

We should accept creation's story by understanding what is written..

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

If I'm not mistaken, a man is married when a preacher "repeats what is said in Gen 2...... "I now pronounce you man and wife" not I now pronounce you married".
Gen 2:24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Does the scripture calls Eve Adam's wife or not? Well there is no assumption on my part, I believe what's written.

Actually Crib, the same word is used in Hebrew (H802) for wife in the quotes above is used in verses 22 and 23 that means woman. The term wife was a translational assumption. So there is no direct evidence of Adam and Eve being married.

 

[Cribstyl]

My point for posting Gen 2 is to show that what we should be talking about is how to apply what is written to understanding.
Yes, We have to hold on to and apply to understanding what is commanded in creation.......

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

TIME IS IMPLIED BEFORE THE 7th DAY


Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
(Timeline important)
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof.
(Animals formed from the ground as man, they recieve no "breathe of life" to make them live".)
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

(The institution of mar... man and wify)

We should accept creation's story by understanding what is written..

Are you saying that you don't believe the literal six day creation? It would seem, from your above comments that you put greater time between each 'day' of the creation week.

Also your comment on animals not having the breath of life given to then doesn't make sense. God may have given us a greater intellect than the animal but we are all mortal creatures that live and die the same way. The Bible also refers to the animals as 'souls', so I don't distinguish the difference...

 

[Stryder06]

That's false, you're tilting the table over to make your point Stryder. You want to be correct that marriage is not spelled out in creation.

Rightly dividing the word should not "deductively reason out" anything that is written in the word.

The bible explains how God first brought animals to Adam looking for a mate for him.
The bible explains how two becomes one as if God joins them tegether.
The bible explains God's creation decree that man and woman is to multiply to populate the earth.
Need I say more about God's written plan for man and woman?(there's more)

The plan for keeping the Sabbath day Holy has no text I can post, it's not seen until Ex16.
The definition of "blessed" and "sanctified" does not of itself command humanty to do anything unless you take it's out of context and add words that God never said. Why should we consider God commanding men in text that tells us about what God created before entering into His rest?

The words "Sabbath day" does not come up until Ex16.

The first seven days of creation only tell us about what God Has done and nothing more is added. Man only fits in Gen 1-2:3 as His creation not His comrade. God is Spirit man is dirt....Hello

From Gen 2:4 on, the bible begins to tell us about God's plans for all His creation and His purpose for man. Why should I hear what God is commanding from another mouth but the writer of Genesis?

Gen2:4 take us back into God's creation days and explain Who (just 2people), how(from dirt), when(6th day) and what His creation commandments to man was. (treeofG&E) The bible in Genesis tells us why man was created,(keep garden) what man should eat,(veggie) what man should do(name all animals, have dominion of all creation)
Keeping the Sabbath does not come up as a creation commandment. (we dont rub it in your faces)


You're revealing how your truth is found by human reasoning and what is written can be ignored.

What you and I reasonably deduce does not matter. What matters is, every word from the mouth of God.
The apostles do spell it out, they do teach it ....some people dont care to follow what's written.
Rather than apply it's teaching to understanding, they apply "words" to reasoning what they want to hear.

Act 15 does show us what was taught to the Gentiles also the Epistles of Paul to Gentile nations prove what was taught to Gentiles.

We've looked into a few arguments and just like marriage you know there is scripture to support it. The fact that you can find once sentence about Keeping the Sabbath in creation is why you're trying to put a magnifying glass to question marriage.

Just before hand, what follows below is a bunch of commentary, so let's just get that out of the way...

Crib, you're not helping yourself any. I was trying to make an example of how we can know for a certainty certain things that God expected from man even though it isn't stated in black and white. You yourself just stated in the above what Adam was commanded to do. Tell me this, when was Adam commanded to Love God or his neighbor? Where was the commandment that Adam should honor his wife? Where was the commandment for Adam that forbade murder?

There is nothing wrong with using reasoning to understand scripture. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. And it's not about putting a magnifying glass on marriage. I know for a fact you can't show me any commandment given by God to Adam that he was suppose to love his wife, but I know that Adam loved her and I know he continued to care for her after the fall. You can't have it both ways. You can't say that there was no command given to Adam for keeping the sabbath and so we can't say he kept it, but then turn around and say Adam and Eve were married.

Notice that God spoke to Moses asking him how long the people would continue to break His commandments, way before they got to Sinai. What commandments would those be Crib? What commandments did Abraham keep? God isn't as flaky as most people would like Him to be. His rules are universal. Just because they aren't kept universally doesn't mean that isn't the intention.

 

[Stryder06]

Crib, can I ask you something?

What do you think the purpose of the sabbath is?

What do you think the bible means when it said God rested?

 

[Kira Light]

Are you saying that you don't believe the literal six day creation? It would seem, from your above comments that you put greater time between each 'day' of the creation week.

Also your comment on animals not having the breath of life given to then doesn't make sense. God may have given us a greater intellect than the animal but we are all mortal creatures that live and die the same way. The Bible also refers to the animals as 'souls', so I don't distinguish the difference...

This raises an interesting point. Do Adventists have to believe in a literal 6 day creation? I would think not, but I guess that first Sabbath on day 7 doesn't have the same meaning otherwise.

 

[Cribstyl]

Actually Crib, the same word is used in Hebrew (H802) for wife in the quotes above is used in verses 22 and 23 that means woman. The term wife was a translational assumption. So there is no direct evidence of Adam and Eve being married.

Bible Lexicon does a good job of settling this issue, but let's see whatelse you might find.

Clicking on "wife" bellow will show which texts are renderes (H802) wife.
Clicking on "woman" will show which tests are rendered (H802) woman.
AV — wife 425, woman 324, one 10, married 5, female 2, misc 14

Gen 2:24Therefore3651 shall a man376 leave5800 his father1 and his mother517, and shall cleave1692 unto his wife802: and they shall be one259 flesh1320.

Gen 2:25And they were both8147 naked6174, the man120 and his wife802, and were not ashamed954

Here is a Hebrew word for word source....

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen2.pdf

 

[Cribstyl]

Are you saying that you don't believe the literal six day creation? It would seem, from your above comments that you put greater time between each 'day' of the creation week.

Well, first understand that I believe that God created the world in 6days and rested on the seventh day. No I dont believe it was 7 literal days. The fact that all the details are not presented in scriptures, I dont feel at liberty to skate off the pages and let commentary become my doctrine. As SDA often say.."God will reveal it on that day."

Also your comment on animals not having the breath of life given to then doesn't make sense. God may have given us a greater intellect than the animal but we are all mortal creatures that live and die the same way. The Bible also refers to the animals as 'souls', so I don't distinguish the difference...

The breathe of God in man is of God's eternal spirit. When a man dies, the breathe(spirit of the man) goes back to God.
Animals are of the earth and return to the earth.

 

[Stryder06]

This raises an interesting point. Do Adventists have to believe in a literal 6 day creation? I would think not, but I guess that first Sabbath on day 7 doesn't have the same meaning otherwise.

I would like to think the better question is do christians have to believe in a literal 7 day creation.

 

[Stryder06]

The breathe of God in man is of God's eternal spirit. When a man dies, the breathe(spirit of the man) goes back to God.
Animals are of the earth and return to the earth.

Not to but in but,

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return