Evidence for Design (3)

[Kylie]

No, it's just proof that it was created by an intelligence. Besides, stones are not a biological system. Wrong/false analogy.

Ahem. The arch is irreducibly complex, isn't it? Do you deny that the removal of any one stone would cause the whole thing to collapse?

 

[mzungu]

Ahem. The arch is irreducibly complex, isn't it? Do you deny that the removal of any one stone would cause the whole thing to collapse?

LOL! He saw the cheese but missed the trap

Well put

 

[Black Akuma]

Besides, stones are not a biological system. Wrong/false analogy.

Watches aren't a biological system, either, but that never stopped a creationist from trotting out the watchmaker argument.

 

[EternalDragon]

Watches aren't a biological system, either, but that never stopped a creationist from trotting out the watchmaker argument.

That's because it is a teleological argument. A watch was designed by an intelligence. An arch (in the picture posted here) was designed by an intelligence. Apply the same to a biological system and it has the same appearance.

It's not about removing a piece. It's about the pieces.

 

[Black Akuma]

Apply the same to a biological system

There's no reason to do that.

 

[EternalDragon]

There's no reason to do that.

I agree. Anyone can see it plainly.

 

[mzungu]

I agree. Anyone can see it plainly.

No; you only see what you want to see. Reality does not work that way.

 

[Kylie]

That's because it is a teleological argument. A watch was designed by an intelligence. An arch (in the picture posted here) was designed by an intelligence. Apply the same to a biological system and it has the same appearance.

It's not about removing a piece. It's about the pieces.

Rubbish. Irreducible complexity is all about how all the pieces need to be there are the same time because the lack of any one piece means the rest can't work.

That applies to the arch. Now tell me, was the arch put together all at the same time?

 

[Black Akuma]

I agree. Anyone can see it plainly.

Yes, anyone can see that biological systems and inanimate objects are fundamentally different.

Except creationists, apparently.

 

[createdtoworship]

ATP synthase - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

first of all wikipedia has been known to be wrong

secondly, there are no scholarly research linked.

which of course seems to make it look like an opinion.

opinions don't hold up well here.

here is an argument from your side that may hold more water...
Evolution, as in Mutation and Selection, Has Been Demonstrated in ATP Synthase - Evolution News & Views

 

[createdtoworship]

The mammalian middle ear is irreducibly complex, and yet we have the step by step evolution of that IC complex. Without all three bones (hammer, anvil, stapes) we can't hear, and yet reptiles only have a single middle ear. ID supporters would like you to believe that this would require deaf intermediates while the IC middle ear is built, but is this true? Nope. It was functional throughout each step.

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: Part 1

There is even a transitional stage where the mammal-like reptiles had a two jointed jaw as one of the bones served as both a middle ear bone and a jaw bone.

ID supporters claim that IC systems can not evolve. Well, they can and we have the fossils to prove it.

interesting quotes from scholarly secular articles from 2007, 2011 show some intersting questions regarding your hypothesis...


paper published in Nature 2007
"The situation is not as clear-cut as it seems. The evolutionary relationships of the fossil suggest that either the "modern" middle ear evolved twice, independently or that it evolved and was then lost in at least one ancient lineage." - See more at: On the Evolution of the Mammalian Middle Ear - Evolution News & Views

 

[Dave Ellis]

first of all wikipedia has been known to be wrong

secondly, there are no scholarly research linked.

which of course seems to make it look like an opinion.

opinions don't hold up well here.

here is an argument from your side that may hold more water...
Evolution, as in Mutation and Selection, Has Been Demonstrated in ATP Synthase - Evolution News & Views

I went to Wikipedia because past history with you shows that no matter what I link, you're not going to believe it. So, I went quick and easy.

 

[Loudmouth]

This is a naturally occuring stone archway.

Geologists claim that the rocks making up that arch was once mud, and there is no way that mud could support that span. Therefore, the entire archway had to appear as is from solid stone, right? Wrong. When you figure out how this arch could form you will have taken your first steps to understanding how IC systems evolve.

 

[Loudmouth]

interesting quotes from scholarly secular articles from 2007, 2011 show some intersting questions regarding your hypothesis...


paper published in Nature 2007
"The situation is not as clear-cut as it seems. The evolutionary relationships of the fossil suggest that either the "modern" middle ear evolved twice, independently or that it evolved and was then lost in at least one ancient lineage." - See more at: On the Evolution of the Mammalian Middle Ear - Evolution News & Views

I notice you made no comments on a step by step evolution of an IC system.

 

[mzungu]

This is a naturally occuring stone archway.

Geologists claim that the rocks making up that arch was once mud, and there is no way that mud could support that span. Therefore, the entire archway had to appear as is from solid stone, right? Wrong. When you figure out how this arch could form you will have taken your first steps to understanding how IC systems evolve.

Here's another one; hexagonal lava columns:

 

[Kylie]

This is a naturally occuring stone archway.

Geologists claim that the rocks making up that arch was once mud, and there is no way that mud could support that span. Therefore, the entire archway had to appear as is from solid stone, right? Wrong. When you figure out how this arch could form you will have taken your first steps to understanding how IC systems evolve.

Just as with my arch of many individual stones!

 

[EternalDragon]

Just as with my arch of many individual stones!

So the one with individual stones was not man made? Please demonstrate this.

 

[Kylie]

So the one with individual stones was not man made? Please demonstrate this.

I never said that. I said it was irreducibly complex and all the stones must have been placed at the same time. I never said it wasn't man made.

 

[Loudmouth]

So the one with individual stones was not man made? Please demonstrate this.

The arch I showed was not man made. Geologists claim that those rocks were once mud, and there is no way that mud could form that span. So does that arch require an intelligent designer, or could it still be produced by natural processes?

 

[createdtoworship]

I notice you made no comments on a step by step evolution of an IC system.

I didn't see it or I would have commented.