Evidence for Christianity??

[Dave Ellis]

You do need God to create you before you can do good things. So your ability to do good things is a result of the relationship you have with your creator.
You seem to be really pushing for the ability to do good apart from a loving relationship with God all together, which I believe is impossible.

Can you demonstrate that?

 

[StTruth]

So, how does that blessing matter then?

It doesn't matter. But it's still a blessing to do good. I think the word 'blessing' as used in the Christian context has a connection with 'happiness'. That is why when our Lord says 'Blessed are the meek', it can sometimes be translated in some Bible versions as 'Happy are the meek'. Most humans feel happy when they do good. This is because of our evolution as social animals. When we do altruistic things, we increase the chances of the survival of our species. We feel happy so we continue doing things that help our survival. If we didn't feel happy, our species might have become extinct. The happiness doesn't help us personally but it helps the species.

Cheers,

St Truth

 

[Chriliman]

Well one doesn't have anything to do with the other. Jeffery Dahmer had to be born before he could grow up and cannibalize people, but we don't credit his parents for his eating people do we?

If you want to make the argument that god somehow gets credit for everything good that we do because he created us, then make that argument. I'm sure you're not going to because you realize that would make him equally responsible for all the bad we do.

It's not about God receiving credit for the good we do, it's about us being thankful to Him for creating us to do good and sorry for the bad we do. Again, I point towards the parent/child relationship. I'm sure you understand as it's not that hard to grasp and I know you're smart.

Lol what?? So no non-christian anywhere, at any time, ever did anything good?

You don't actually believe that, do you?

I didn't say that. I believe non-believers were also created by God and therefore have potential to do good. I understand you don't accept it when I say one can only potentially do good if God has created them, but it is sound logic. Anyhow, I'll leave it at that.

 

[Chriliman]

A child needs parents in order to exist, however a child does not require parents in order to make choices. Parents can be there to guide and help, however in the absence of parents, children can still make choices.

I know, that was the last point I made in the post you're responding to. I explicitly stated that parents and God don't control their offsprings choices, but do lovingly hold their offspring accountable for the offspring's choices.

 

[Chriliman]

Dp

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's not about God receiving credit for the good we do, it's about us being thankful to Him for creating us to do good and sorry for the bad we do. Again, I point towards the parent/child relationship. I'm sure you understand as it's not that hard to grasp and I know you're smart.

It just seems like you keep changing your position. I asked for an example of a "blessing" and you replied that the ability to do good is a "blessing".

Now it appears that there's nothing special about this blessing at all...you don't need god to do good, nor do you need to believe in god to do good. You simply have to exist.

I don't see what part of that would be considered a blessing.

I didn't say that. I believe non-believers were also created by God and therefore have potential to do good. I understand you don't accept it when I say one can only potentially do good if God has created them, but it is sound logic. Anyhow, I'll leave it at that.

Well regardless of how you think people came to exist....we exist...and since we all have the ability to do good...we are all equally "blessed"?

Is that what you're saying?

 

[Dave Ellis]

It doesn't matter. But it's still a blessing to do good. I think the word 'blessing' as used in the Christian context has a connection with 'happiness'. That is why when our Lord says 'Blessed are the meek', it can sometimes be translated in some Bible versions as 'Happy are the meek'. Most humans feel happy when they do good. This is because of our evolution as social animals. When we do altruistic things, we increase the chances of the survival of our species. We feel happy so we continue doing things that help our survival. If we didn't feel happy, our species might have become extinct. The happiness doesn't help us personally but it helps the species.

Cheers,

St Truth

If the blessing doesn't matter, then who cares?

Whether god gives you a blessing or not would be rather inconsequential. You can be just as happy without the blessing.

 

[Dave Ellis]

I know, that was the last point I made in the post you're responding to. I explicitly stated that parents and God don't control their offsprings choices, but do lovingly hold their offspring accountable for the offspring's choices.

You didn't say anything about accountability in your post, explicit or not.

 

[StTruth]

If the blessing doesn't matter, then who cares?

Whether god gives you a blessing or not would be rather inconsequential. You can be just as happy without the blessing.

You don't understand this. It's not God giving us a blessing. Scriptures say that metaphorically. It's we ourselves feeling happy and that's because of aeons of evolution that has conditioned us to be happy when we do something to preserve our species. It's natural selection. X isn't altruistic. X lives in a community where everyone isn't altruistic. After 1000 years, the community becomes extinct because they aren't united and they are easily attacked and subdued. Imagine there are a million X communities that came and went (became extinct). Then we see Y. He has the altruistic genes. He survives better than those who aren't altruistic because he gets along. His kids with the genes survive. After a million years, people with the altruistic genes will survive better. So they say, it's more blessed to give than to receive. They genuinely feel happy when they're altruistic.

And now you ask what is the 'blessing'. I tell you it's happiness and you say it's not important. But it is important. It preserves the species.

I hope you understand what I'm saying.

Cheers,

St Truth

 

[quatona]

You do need God to create you before you can do good things. So your ability to do good things is a result of the relationship you have with your creator.
You seem to be really pushing for the ability to do good apart from a loving relationship with God all together, which I believe is impossible.

Existence is a prerequisite for action (good or bad), that much is indisputed. This, however, doesn´t make a case for your belief as to how existence comes to pass anymore than for any other idea about it.

 

[Dave Ellis]

You don't understand this. It's not God giving us a blessing. Scriptures say that metaphorically. It's we ourselves feeling happy and that's because of aeons of evolution that has conditioned us to be happy when we do something to preserve our species. It's natural selection. X isn't altruistic. X lives in a community where everyone isn't altruistic. After 1000 years, the community becomes extinct because they aren't united and they are easily attacked and subdued. Imagine there are a million X communities that came and went (became extinct). Then we see Y. He has the altruistic genes. He survives better than those who aren't altruistic because he gets along. His kids with the genes survive. After a million years, people with the altruistic genes will survive better. So they say, it's more blessed to give than to receive. They genuinely feel happy when they're altruistic.

And now you ask what is the 'blessing'. I tell you it's happiness and you say it's not important. But it is important. It preserves the species.

I hope you understand what I'm saying.

Cheers,

St Truth

So basically, we feel happy when we do good.

God and blessings is irrelevant to the entire process.

 

[Chriliman]

Existence is a prerequisite for action (good or bad), that much is indisputed. This, however, doesn´t make a case for your belief as to how existence comes to pass anymore than for any other idea about it.

It's the bases for a hypothesis.

 

[Chriliman]

You didn't say anything about accountability in your post, explicit or not.

You're right, however, I'd hope you'd be able to infer that based on what you know I believe.

 

[Chriliman]

So basically, we feel happy when we do good.

God and blessings is irrelevant to the entire process.

Again, this is flawed logic if we're assuming God was involved in causing us to evolve and become self aware. If we're not assuming this then, yes, your point makes sense, but the argument presupposes God was involved and therefore relevant.

 

[StTruth]

So basically, we feel happy when we do good.

God and blessings is irrelevant to the entire process.

If you look at all my posts, you will see a consistent thread running through them - God is irrelevant in morality. I have always argued that morality is never objective - it changes with time and cultural differences. I have also shown on other threads that as time changes, we Christians change the morality of God too. Examples can be seen in the value we place on life and our disgust for slavery. As we place more value on human life and as we find slavery increasingly repulsive, so too have we changed God's morality on those areas.

I speak the truth for I am...

St Truth

 

[quatona]

It's the bases for a hypothesis.

It´s the basis of every hypothesis, and thus doesn´t support your hypothesis in the way you initially claimed.

 

[ShamashUruk]

Islam in a few decades will be the largest religion in the world. Will that be evidence that Islam is true when that happens?

Okay let's be honest here, Islam is a Christian influenced religion, therefore Christianity must be the true religion. Wait! I forgot! Christianity is influenced by Judaism, therefore Judaism must be the the one true religion. Hold it! Hold it! Judaism has Mesopotamian influence in it, therefore Mesopotamia must be the one true religion.....lol

Cool joke, but you can see the pattern emerging.

So in the scope of religion, bigger doesn't mean better, bigger just means more people believing the same thing for whatever reason they see fit.

 

[ShamashUruk]

If you look at all my posts, you will see a consistent thread running through them - God is irrelevant in morality. I have always argued that morality is never objective - it changes with time and cultural differences. I have also shown on other threads that as time changes, we Christians change the morality of God too. Examples can be seen in the value we place on life and our disgust for slavery. As we place more value on human life and as we find slavery increasingly repulsive, so too have we changed God's morality on those areas.

I speak the truth for I am...

St Truth

While you make a good argument, it says on your profile you are a Christian. Are you a Christian? Interesting if you are.

 

[StTruth]

While you make a good argument, it says on your profile you are a Christian. Are you a Christian? Interesting if you are.

Yes I am. I'm still an altar boy and have been one since I was 5. I go to church with my parents. I know you think I'm very old because I sound so mature and sensible but I just got my GCSE results last month. If I were in the US, I'd still be in High School. Naturally, my religion is the same as my parents'. I'm not the rebellious kind of boy and to my father, the church is a part of our national and family identity. It means a lot to him that our early ancestor was a very important churchman in the time of Henry VIII. Because of my indoctrination, I believe in God but I am aware of the problems of the faith. I've read a lot and anyone who has read a lot can't possibly be ignorant of these things.

I am none other than...

St Truth

 

[bhsmte]

While you make a good argument, it says on your profile you are a Christian. Are you a Christian? Interesting if you are.

Happy Birthday! And, i love your signature line.