Evangelism

[JM]

Thanks AMR. "Let it not therefore be judged of us (because much hath been written on this subject, and yet we continue this our practise different from others) that it is out of obstinacy, but rather as the truth is, that we do herein according to the best of our understandings worship God, out of a pure mind yielding obedience to his precept, in that method which we take to be most agreeable to the Scriptures of truth, and primitive practise."

 

[AMR]

As laity, would it be scripturally incorrect for me to lead a small group bible study where I do some teaching?

I think Scripture warrants approval from your local church authorities. Having that in hand, proceed as directed.

 

[BryanW92]

I think Scripture warrants approval from your local church authorities. Having that in hand, proceed as directed.

OK. No one is offering an in-depth bible study in my church. All of our small groups and Sunday school classes are studying history, books, and life application stuff, but no actual exegetical study.

I'm too new at my church to suggest they add curriculum or to ask for theirs blessing for me to teach so I'll just study alone or with some of my friends from my old church.

Thanks for setting me straight on this.

 

[AMR]

OK. No one is offering an in-depth bible study in my church. All of our small groups and Sunday school classes are studying history, books, and life application stuff, but no actual exegetical study.

I'm too new at my church to suggest they add curriculum or to ask for theirs blessing for me to teach so I'll just study alone or with some of my friends from my old church.

Thanks for setting me straight on this.

Newness of membership is no reason to not seek approval from your local session if you are going to teach in a bible study group. I am sure the elders would be open to such a discussion.

 

[BryanW92]

Newness of membership is no reason to not seek approval from your local session if you are going to teach in a bible study group. I am sure the elders would be open to such a discussion.

I don't know any of the elders, so I wouldn't know where to begin to ask. I've never had to ask to do a bible study in a church before. When I joined the church, we had to take a Spiritual Gifts test to find out what our gift is. Mine came out as Teaching as #1, so when the elders were doing the membership interview, they looked at the test results to see where I would "plug in" and one of them said, "Looks like you get to take a couple years off." I didn't understand what that meant until now. I thought they were kidding.

Its easier to just study with the Methodists for now. Maybe some elder will start a legal bible study next semester. I just know that I've been here for three semesters and no bible studies yet.

 

[AMR]

Bryan,

The only way to know the elders is to speak to them. Do not hesitate and you will be surprised by their willingness to work with you. Every Pastor I speak to will say that he can determine within a very short time those in the congregation who are there to serve or be served. The latter simply refuse to serve the organic body (which needs all parts and systems functioning) of the church with the gifts they have been given.

Take a chance and reach out to the local session leaders. After you have been given their blessing you will find yourself emboldened to bring glory to God.

 

[JM]

Bryan, my Pastor preached two sermons recently on the Body of Christ and how it functions. It might be useful to you. Download Nov. 23 & 30.

Maple City Baptist Church - Chatham, ON

 

[BryanW92]

Bryan, my Pastor preached two sermons recently on the Body of Christ and how it functions. It might be useful to you. Download Nov. 23 & 30.

Maple City Baptist Church - Chatham, ON

I know how the body of Christ functions. I was chairman of the Church Council for three years in my old church. I was Lay Delegate to Annual Conference. I've taught adult Sunday school and led small groups for 5 years. I've done everything from cleaning bathrooms to preaching from the pulpit.

The bottom line here is that the Elders (3 ruling and 1 teaching) looked at my application form for membership and saw my experience and gifts, and told me to just take a couple years off from doing that stuff.

I accept that. I'm new to the PCA. So, I chose to serve by joining the A/V team being the sound engineer on Sundays. I did that at the old church too. So, I am serving and not demanding to be served. In fact, I want to serve more but I'm not "qualified" at this time.

But, I'm still feeling like I need a group bible study and none of our 25 Elders offer that. They aren't a very approachable group. Every time I start talking to one of them, they start talking, asking in a rapid-fire way, "how are you doing? are you getting plugged in? how do you like the church?" etc. By the time they're done, someone else walks up and starts talking and they say, "Excuse me. Good seeing ya! Keep up the good work!" and they walk away with the other person. So, I wind up feeling like Flounder in Animal House.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuFCaIAnETk

The pastors are always running 100 miles per hour and I hate to take up any of their time.

 

[AMR]

Every time I start talking to one of them, they start talking, asking in a rapid-fire way, "how are you doing? are you getting plugged in? how do you like the church?" etc. By the time they're done, someone else walks up and starts talking and they say, "Excuse me. Good seeing ya! Keep up the good work!" and they walk away with the other person. So, I wind up feeling like Flounder in Animal House.

Rather than ad-hoc communications make an actual appointment (office, coffee shop, etc.) to speak with one of the elders such that no interruptions are likely.

You seem predisposed to a view that your desires are going to be waved off. Rather, I think you are not trying hard enough to get some one on one attention for serious discussion. Afterwards, and only afterwards, if the decision is for you to be patient then accept that in obedience.

 

[BryanW92]

Rather than ad-hoc communications make an actual appointment (office, coffee shop, etc.) to speak with one of the elders such that no interruptions are likely.

You seem predisposed to a view that your desires are going to be waved off. Rather, I think you are not trying hard enough to get some one on one attention for serious discussion. Afterwards, and only afterwards, if the decision is for you to be patient then accept that in obedience.

Well, that didn't go well. I wanted to talk to the pastor tonight about class offerings at the church and he started talking before I could. He talked about how adult Sunday school attendance was down and that we don't do anything unless we have child care provided and it wan't worth the cost of child care for that time since not many people were attending the 9 am Sunday school, so we're going to cut it out in 2015 and just go to classes on Sunday night. He said that our Sunday night classes would be "life application stuff" (which is what we do now and is very light on bible study).

So, it didn't seem like a good time to ask about something radical like an in-depth bible study. :-(

 

[gord44]

Make a point that Sunday school attendance is low because maybe all they offer is weak-sauce life application nonsense?

 

[BryanW92]

Make a point that Sunday school attendance is low because maybe all they offer is weak-sauce life application nonsense?

Maybe I'm just being too Wesleyan in my thinking. I like my new church and I'm not leaving, but I haven't had a good discussion of scripture or theology in seven months. No one talks about that stuff.

 

[BryanW92]

Make a point that Sunday school attendance is low because maybe all they offer is weak-sauce life application nonsense?

Maybe I'm just being too Wesleyan in my thinking. I like my new church and I'm not leaving, but I haven't had a good discussion of scripture or theology in seven months. No one talks about that stuff. If you start a discussion, they go blank.

 

[AMR]

Well, that didn't go well. I wanted to talk to the pastor tonight about class offerings at the church and he started talking before I could. He talked about how adult Sunday school attendance was down and that we don't do anything unless we have child care provided and it wan't worth the cost of child care for that time since not many people were attending the 9 am Sunday school, so we're going to cut it out in 2015 and just go to classes on Sunday night. He said that our Sunday night classes would be "life application stuff" (which is what we do now and is very light on bible study).

So, it didn't seem like a good time to ask about something radical like an in-depth bible study. :-(

Call his office and get someone to set up an appointment with your Pastor. Make it a formal meeting. Surely he is there for appointments with his flock. Take any date they have for a meeting with him, even one weeks from now. I noted earlier that ad-hoc ambushes will not usually be productive with a busy Pastor, even in small churches.

 

[GQ Chris]

I've been guilty of being Hyper Calvinist. and thinking that people will be saved or not whether or not I tell them about the Gospel. smh

 

[BryanW92]

Call his office and get someone to set up an appointment with your Pastor. Make it a formal meeting. Surely he is there for appointments with his flock. Take any date they have for a meeting with him, even one weeks from now. I noted earlier that ad-hoc ambushes will not usually be productive with a busy Pastor, even in small churches.

I've been questioning my decision to leave the UMC and come over to the Reformed side of the fence, especially in light of the topic of this thread.

So, I went over to a Methodist forum to just lurk and listen and see if I really had made a mistake. After a week of lurking, I remembered exactly why I left the UMC and Arminian theology. They take pride in not being confessional, so you can believe what you want, but if you say that you believe the bible, you get jumped by every pastor on that forum and told that Methodists do NOT believe the bible as fact.

I'm all better now.

 

[gord44]

I've been questioning my decision to leave the UMC and come over to the Reformed side of the fence, especially in light of the topic of this thread.

So, I went over to a Methodist forum to just lurk and listen and see if I really had made a mistake. After a week of lurking, I remembered exactly why I left the UMC and Arminian theology. They take pride in not being confessional, so you can believe what you want, but if you say that you believe the bible, you get jumped by every pastor on that forum and told that Methodists do NOT believe the bible as fact.

I'm all better now.

There's lots of churches besides Presby's and Methodists. Don't be scared to search around a little.

 

[BryanW92]

There's lots of churches besides Presby's and Methodists. Don't be scared to search around a little.

I already did. I was die-hard non-Calvinist, so I tried non-denoms, Lutheran, Baptist, and even considered becoming a Catholic. Presbyterian was not even on my radar. It was out there in "crazy territory" like the Mormons and SDA's for me.

 

[AndrewStrobel]

Man, people make this harder than it is. Jesus said to go into the world and make disciples of all the nations. Who are called? We are all called, those who say YES!

Now, is everybody going to be standing behind a pulpit? No
Is everybody going to actually travel to the far ends of the earth? No

But last I checked, Jesus said to love EVERYBODY. If we love people, we are going to be telling people about Jesus.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. Revelations 12:11

Just blessing people and living radically different and behaving different and loving people unlike the world and telling them about what Jesus has done in your life is evangelism. Sure, some people are more gifted at this than others, some will actually be called and will end up with a "big stage" to make Jesus more famous than He already is, but the truth is if we love people and we are "new creations", like the bible says, than we shouldn't NOT be evangelizing.

I pray that, every single day, we ask the Holy Spirit to guide us into circumstances where we can give His love away freely. Jesus said to pray for "more laborers" so why are we having a discussion about who should evangelize and who shouldn't?

It is not like the work we do is in our own power. It is not like we have some magical power to heal somebody or to give salvation to somebody. If the Holy Spirit moves on a person and they want Jesus Christ and they answer His call on their life, than it is "God who gives increase". Those who plant and those who water are NOTHING but ministers.

People tend to make things harder than they are. BryanW92, start a bible study at your house. If you are doing it and it is God's will, you will be successful at it, and even if you fail, you will learn. If you are doing it out of a place of sincerity and are trying to glorify Jesus Christ, I don't see anything wrong. Now, if you get all "controlling" and what not, than listen to the Holy Spirit and what He is trying to tell you. Just make sure you are approaching it with fear and trembling, taking it seriously because it is serious, but God wants His kids to believe the gospel. To go out tell the world what He has done for you and to bring Him glory!

I know some of the stuff I have said here is using strong language, and that is purposeful. By telling people not to evangelize unless they are "called", makes people idle. Tell people to seek Jesus and His Will above all else and those people will find joy and they will tell people!

If you tell them they have to "wait" forever, then they will settle into "life as a Christian" and get cold. If you are employed, every single person at work should know you are a Christian. So long before I was walking with the Lord I saw Christians who acted just like normal people in the world, and when I get radically saved those people come out of the woodwork and are like "I'm a Christian", and "oh, you'll quiet down soon"... man, hearing that was a curse on my life. Why would I want to turn down the heat of God when He is a Consuming fire?

It is not like the "fear of man" isn't previlent enough in society and amongst many Christians, if you tell them to "not evangelize" they will cool down and never try to save a soul.

I read somewhere that between 80-95% of Christians never lead another soul to the Lord... this is a PATHETIC NUMBER.

There is my rant for the night, I know I will have some backlash but I hope this sparks some good, healthy debate.

Jesus called us the "Light of the World" and "salt of the earth"... why would we want to keep that to ourselves when people are living in bondage to the world and going to hell daily?

Be blessed, ALL OF YOU... even if your views are different from mine regarding this topic, I hope you know I only care about people coming to know Jesus and I know just how hard it can be sometimes to "break through" with people. I believe we Christians need to be intentional about how we live our lives as well as the words we speak to people and be constantly looking for ways to share the love of God with people so that they may have "ears to hear".

Happy New Years!!!

 

[BryanW92]

By telling people not to evangelize unless they are "called", makes people idle. Tell people to seek Jesus and His Will above all else and those people will find joy and they will tell people!

If you tell them they have to "wait" forever, then they will settle into "life as a Christian" and get cold.

You're right. Even when Pelagius created his "heresy" (as decided by Rome), he was merely introducing the free will element to get cold Christians up off their butts and back into the game. When I was Wesleyan, I worked hard for the kingdom: teaching, preaching, leading, talking, serving in every way possible. It wasn't because I thought I had to work my way in, but because I thought that I was a full member of that kingdom with all the rights and responsibilities of membership.

The women in my church are not constrained by the rules. If they want to have a bible study (for women, by women), they are given full permission to do what they want. My wife, who has only been a member of this church for as long as I have will be teaching a bible study beginning in two weeks with the pastor's blessing.

But, for men, there isn't even a group to join. Some are called to be Elders and some are called to be Deacons, and I assume that they support and teach one another. The rest are asked to wait patiently and quietly. I'm beginning to understand the meaning of the "Chosen Frozen" because my fire has to be turned way down to fit in here and not overstep the boundaries of my "authority".

On the plus side, I do have a lot more free time than I did as a Methodist!!