Evangelicals???

[Zaac]

I was watching Larry King last night just because Joyce Meyer was on there. And she was less than impressing in her response to some of the questions. There's just something that I couldn't quite put my finger on.

One exchange , in particular bothered me. It follows:

KING: Some people might have said, why not study Muslims, a religion with more members than yours? Why not study Judaism, a religion older than yours? Why Christianity? There are a lot of roads to God.

MEYER: Yes. I'm sure that -- first of all, I didn't even think of anything else, because this is all I had ever heard about or known. And I know that question is always there. Well, what about this? What about that? What about something else?

KING: They believe as fervently as you do.

MEYER: All I know is this works. It's not only worked for me, but I've seen it work for literally thousands and thousands of people. I have seen the transformation on people's faces when they receive Christ. I've seen the glory come on them, the light. I've seen what's happened to my own father.

KING: If it works, don't knock it?

MEYER: Yes.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0505/19/lkl.01.html

What do you think of this exchange?

Joyce was included on a list of America's 25 most influential evangelicals back in February. And if this list is the face of Christianity in America, we're in trouble.

1. Rick Warren
2. Howard & Roberta Ahmanson
3. David Barton
4. Doug Coe
5. Chuck Colson
6. Luis Cortes
7. James Dobson
8. Stuart Epperson
9. Michael Gerson
10. Billy & Franklin Graham
11. Ted Haggard
12. Bill Hybels
13. T.D. Jakes
14. Diane Knippers
15. Tim & Beverly LaHaye
16. Richard Land
17. Brian McLaren
18. Joyce Meyer
19. Richard John Neuhaus
20. Mark Noll
21. J.I. Packer
22. Rick Santorum
23. Jay Sekulow
24. Stephen Strang
25. Ralph Winter

 

[Ittai2]

I'm really surprised that Joel Osteen isn't on that list. Of course I would exactly call him an evangelical, more of a motivational speaker.

 

[The Counselor]

Joyce Meyers is probably not a mental giant when it comes to formal theological ideas and discussions. Her ministry however appears to come directly out of her background that includes sexual abuse. She seems able to use this background to help others find healing. If the question is the exclusiveness of her theology than the question becomes if she has every thought beyond her own background on these matters.

 

[HouseApe]

Why did that exchange bother you? Ms. Meyer cannot show that Christians enjoy any greater transformational experience than do the converts of any other religion. She is being perfectly honest: she is a Christian, always has been, has never really attempted to follow and understand the faiths of other religions, has no ideas about their transformational abilities, but finds the Christian experience satisfying.

 

[Zaac]

I'm really surprised that Joel Osteen isn't on that list. Of course I would exactly call him an evangelical, more of a motivational speaker.

Joel doesn't need to be on the list. You are exactly right. He is more of a motivational speaker.

 

[Zaac]

Joyce Meyers is probably not a mental giant when it comes to formal theological ideas and discussions. Her ministry however appears to come directly out of her background that includes sexual abuse. She seems able to use this background to help others find healing. If the question is the exclusiveness of her theology than the question becomes if she has every thought beyond her own background on these matters.

I can appreciate her using her experiences to help people find healing. But as one of "Americas top 25 evangelicals" her answer to why Christianity and not these other things is "It works?"

In the instance of why Jesus Christ, EVERY Christian should be prepared with why He says HIM and not everything else.

She had the perfect opportunity to tell the world why Jesus and not everything else and she balked. She was pushing the name of Jesus. But she has got to, on that kind of platform, be able to take it to the cross.

 

[morningstar2651]

Joyce's answer is more likely to convert someone than if someone responded offensively telling non-Christians that they're all wrong and stupid and going to hell.

 

[morningstar2651]

If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

Christianity works for her.

 

[Harpuia]

Joyce's answer is more likely to convert someone than if someone responded offensively telling non-Christians that they're all wrong and stupid and going to hell.

You're probably right. But many consider her a heretic because she's rich and stuff like that.

Personally, I think that was just God blessing her tenfold for all the hell she was put through as a child, which, yeah, included sexual abuse. You can't truly dis her for that.

 

[The Counselor]

"I can appreciate her using her experiences to help people find healing. But as one of "Americas top 25 evangelicals" her answer to why Christianity and not these other things is "It works?"

In the instance of why Jesus Christ, EVERY Christian should be prepared with why He says HIM and not everything else.

She had the perfect opportunity to tell the world why Jesus and not everything else and she balked. She was pushing the name of Jesus. But she has got to, on that kind of platform, be able to take it to the cross."

It appears to me that she is as cognitively developed as most Americans on this and many other issues dealing with life, religion, and politics. I use her work in doing therapy because she has a powerful story how God has helped bring healing to her. While there are problems in the long-term with a shallow understanding of faith, her message is deep enough to address most client issues that need to be addressed clinically. The other side of high powered theological egg heads is that such perspectives often come off inhumane and meaningless to the life of those who sit in the pews.

 

[Zaac]

Joyce's answer is more likely to convert someone than if someone responded offensively telling non-Christians that they're all wrong and stupid and going to hell.

Joyce's words don't possess the power to convert anyone. It's GOD'S WORD that sets men free.

Nobody said anything about anyone else being stupid or wrong. Her responsibility is to tell that what Jesus says. Not a "It works."

 

[Spinrad]

Perhaps she was more interested in honesty than piety.

 

[HouseApe]

Does anyone have any numbers on conversions? I personally doubt that a large number of people, relative to the population, ever convert from the basic religion they are born with to another. I don't mean people converting from say being a Methodist to a Baptist, but say from a Sunni Muslim to a Christian. Have any decent studies been done?

I suspect that 99% of all conversions are people born into a faith who stray for awhile then decide to come back and accept it whole heartedly.

 

[Zaac]

"It appears to me that she is as cognitively developed as most Americans on this and many other issues dealing with life, religion, and politics.

Christians are not to be like most Americans.

 

[The Counselor]

"Christians are not to be like most Americans"

I don't know how to understand this Zaac. Faith for many is a process of living out the grace that is given by God. Belief and theology are coginitive functions that speculate on this relationship with God, but do not guarantee salvation for those seeking salvation. It is not apparent that right belief assures one of anything other than have the same belief that others do. In the case of Joyce Meyers her theology and belief is enough for her to write books and preach on a regular basis. She seems to speak to many that are seeking healing in their spirit and heart in the general public. While I don't want to dismiss the centrality of theological reflection in Church such reflection may not meet most folks spiritual needs. Thus pastors like Joyce Meyer appear and flourish in the North American context.

 

[HouseApe]

Christians are not to be like most Americans.

Most Americans are Christians.

 

[levi501]

Most Americans are Christians.

wow, don't even get him started on who is and isn't a xian in this country.
When Zaac's around... every day is judgement day. The whole meek shall inherit the earth and judge not, less you be judged is lost on him.

 

[HouseApe]

wow, don't even get him started on who is and isn't a xian in this country.
When Zaac's around... every day is judgement day. The whole meek shall inherit the earth and judge not, less you be judged is lost on him.

Who Zaac? Nah, he's a big ole' cuddly snuggle bear. The very epitome of love, forgiveness & tolerance. Wait, maybe I have him confused with Seebs.

 

[holo]

I think Meyer gave a good reply. That's all I can say too, that Jesus simply works. That's the reason I believe. I didn't come to faith because somebody reasoned with me or persuaded me with clever words and philosophical argumentation.

 

[Zaac]

"Christians are not to be like most Americans"

I don't know how to understand this Zaac.

She answered it like most Americans would have wanted it answered. But God has told her how it is supposed to be answered. She already let that "there are a lot of roads to God" pass.

Faith for many is a process of living out the grace that is given by God.

Of course it is. But having done what she has be doing for so many years, she should have had a God answer for both those questions.

Belief and theology are coginitive functions that speculate on this relationship with God, but do not guarantee salvation for those seeking salvation. It is not apparent that right belief assures one of anything other than have the same belief that others do.

But he didn't ask her about belief in something else. He asked her about her belief in Christianity and as God's Word says, she is to be prepared in season and out. But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 1 Peter 3:15-16

In the case of Joyce Meyers her theology and belief is enough for her to write books and preach on a regular basis. She seems to speak to many that are seeking healing in their spirit and heart in the general public. While I don't want to dismiss the centrality of theological reflection in Church such reflection may not meet most folks spiritual needs. Thus pastors like Joyce Meyer appear and flourish in the North American context.

And this continues to be very dangerous. This is why people continue to think that our experiences are more important than God's Word.