Evangelicals Plus Tongues

[Alithis]

Why do you say that?
We are born again by the Holy Spirit, John 3:3
We are children of God through the Holy Spirit, Roman 8:16-17
We can only call Jesus 'Lord' through the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 12:3
The Holy Spirit is a deposit, guaranteeing our inheritance, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5, Ephesians 1:14.



The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness etc, Galatians 5:22-23
Anyone who has the Spirit produces these things, though in some cases the fruit may be slow growing. As long as a Christian remains in the vine, John 15:4, they will bear fruit.



No, if we confess a sin and then do that sin again, that just shows that we are not yet perfect. We live in a fallen world with all its temptations, and the devil is continually trying to destroy our relationship with God. Sometimes he succeeds in tempting us, and we sin.
If we fail to confess that sin, and when we fall, we are deluding ourselves, 1 John 1:8,10, and cannot be forgiven for a sin that we deny and refuse to confess.

all of that only applies to the faithful not the unfaithful .i think i know you adhere to osas but the scripture warning against that is overwhelming .

 

[Alithis]

Not biblical. If they wore pants underneath there would have been no need to have girded their loins.

i havnt scrolled back to find how a thread on -plus tongues .. got into whether men wore pants ... haha .

its kind of irrelevant to compare it to ancient times - each generation has had clothing designs for man or for woman . even if it differed only in stitching and tassel coloring to depict male from female .

mind you ,the sentiment that we can wear whatever we like is way outside of a godly life for a godly life desire to obey the holy Spirit within (and if one does not have the spirit of Christ one is not Christ's).so we can never say "i can do what ever i like " because our lives are not our own . but all we need do is glance in the mirror and ask , am i glorifying God ..or my flesh? . and change accordingly . quite simple really

 

[Strong in Him]

all of that only applies to the faithful not the unfaithful

It applies to those who have been born again and received the Holy Spirit.
People may grieve, Ephesians 4:30, or quench, 1 Thessalonians 5:19, the Spirit from time to time; that doesn't mean that he leaves them.

i think i know you adhere to osas but the scripture warning against that is overwhelming .

Just as well that I don't adhere to it then.

 

[Strong in Him]

i havnt scrolled back to find how a thread on -plus tongues .. got into whether men wore pants ... haha .

It's not just about tongues; it's about the differences between Charismatics and Pentecostals.

The OP was talking about holiness; how what someone wears should change when they are born again.
They quoted a verse form Deuteronomy which said that women are forbidden from wearing men's clothing.

 

[Spirit of Pentecost]

We CAN dress as we please.

I wouldn't wear short skirts, for example, or blouses/t shirts that were low cut. I don't think it looks particularly good and just don't want to. But if a Christian woman is wearing a lovely dress that is just above knee length, or a top that reveals just a little more than I would feel happy with, and she's ok with that; what's the problem? The bottom line is that it's between her and God.

If someone is unholy, apart from Gd, not listening to him, etc, it will be because they haven't spent time with him, talking to, listening to and obeying him; not because of what they are wearing.

Sorry, I don't believe so. The Lord commands that His people come out and be separate, and part of our way of doing so is dressing differently than the world does. Scripture backs these things, but many people refuse to see it.

 

[Spirit of Pentecost]

If inward and outward holiness go together (which I'm certain they do) then we must stop differentiating them. The outward is a representation of one's inward holiness. Your outward will change once the inward is cleansed. If we aren't careful, we get convinced our appearance doesn't matter, or if we're in something so long, we end up changing back.

But, in all seriousness, this isn't what I intended when I initiated this thread. I was wanting to discuss how modern-day Pentecostalism has, in many cases, became merely evangelicalism plus tongues.

 

[Strong in Him]

Sorry, I don't believe so. The Lord commands that His people come out and be separate, and part of our way of doing so is dressing differently than the world does. Scripture backs these things, but many people refuse to see it.

How is "the way the world dresses" necessarily different from how a Christian dresses?

Before I became a Christian I wore trousers/jeans/skirts and t shirts/blouses.
Nowadays I wear trousers/jeans/skirts and t shirts/blouses.
True, if I were a non Christian I could wear a rude t shirt or one with a swear word on, and now I am a Christian I could wear a religious one; that would be one noticeable difference.
But I never use/d swear words, even as a non Christian; neither do I wear religious t shirts.

Like I said, the Bible does not teach on 21st century dress, or dress codes/standards for Christians - half the things we do/wear/have now weren't invented then.

 

[Spirit of Pentecost]

How is "the way the world dresses" necessarily different from how a Christian dresses?

And that's the problem. In many cases, it isn't different. The Christians should look different.

Like I said, the Bible does not teach on 21st century dress, or dress codes/standards for Christians - half the things we do/wear/have now weren't invented then.

We should take what the Bible does instruct and apply it to current fashions. But more and more Christians are proclaiming this "inner holiness revelation" theology, and erase all traces of any outward standard of separation.

What's funny though, all the churches (regardless of affiliation) use to dress conservatively and holy. Next to none of them do anymore.

 

[Traveling teacher]

bible talks about lust as the same sin as fornication....

Jesus also says anyone causing another to lust is committing fornication.....
in other words they both commit adultery....
the one who lusted and the one who caused to other to lust....
matthew 5:27-28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

i have seen the most immodest vulgar outfits worn by women on stage in churches...
walked out of more than 1 church....because of it...

 

[Strong in Him]

And that's the problem. In many cases, it isn't different. The Christians should look different.

Why?
And like I said, apart from wearing t shirts with Christian slogans/verses on them; how can we?

Jesus said that we are light for the world, Matthew 5:16; let your light shine so that people may see and give thanks to your Father in heaven. He also said that people would know that we are his disciples because we love one another, John 13:35. Our love and our deeds point people to God - not what we wear.
There are verses in the NT that talk about clothing ourselves with Christ, or putting on garments on praise, or humility; true. But the Bible gives no instruction about physical clothes and what our outer appearance should be. In fact, the opposite; it tells us not to judge by outer appearances.
I have never - in all my 50+ years - had someone convert, or want to give their lives to Jesus, because of what I am wearing.

We should take what the Bible does instruct and apply it to current fashions.

Again, why?
Where does it say that? Where does the Bible teach that some clothes are "holy", others aren't and we should all choose the "right" ones?

But more and more Christians are proclaiming this "inner holiness revelation" theology, and erase all traces of any outward standard of separation.

Again, tell me how what I wear now - which, as you will recall, was the same that I wore as a non Christian - shows my holiness and commitment to Christ?
Show me the verses/passages where it is taught that people will know that we belong to Christ by our clothes?

What's funny though, all the churches (regardless of affiliation) use to dress conservatively and holy. Next to none of them do anymore.

So in your opinion conservative dress = holy?
What does that mean; dresses for the ladies and suits for the men? Hate to tell you but plenty of non Christian/atheists/cult members wear these things too. If you see someone standing on a street corner giving out literature, how can you tell at a distance and a glance whether they are Christians, JWs or someone promoting the latest clothes shop and wearing some of their items?
It's not possible - until you get closer and hear what they are saying and read their literature.

You might think that Christians SHOULD wear "conservative" clothes, and that this SHOULD tell others that they are holy - but that is not the case.
And whatever the outer fashion, it doesn't prove inner holiness. The Victorians dressed very conservatively, yet how many of them slept around before marriage, had abortions or were single mothers?

 

[Alithis]

It applies to those who have been born again and received the Holy Spirit.
People may grieve, Ephesians 4:30, or quench, 1 Thessalonians 5:19, the Spirit from time to time; that doesn't mean that he leaves them.



Just as well that I don't adhere to it then.

great glad you dont adhere to osas . but on the other point i never said he leaves them,i said its no guarantee of salvation ..but i was being loose in explanation ,or lacking . what i mean is a person can say they have received the holy Spirit AND even speak in tongues but they deceive themselves if they do not go on to live and persevere in living in obedience to the lord Jesus .. people can speak in tongues by habit yet not be "FILLED" with the Holy Spirit having no love of the lord Jesus in them . Their tongue continues to clatter like a stick in an empty tin , and they use this too often to validate their standing with god , but they continue in disobedience and will not be saved at his coming -this is what i refer to .

 

[Alithis]

What's funny though, all the churches (regardless of affiliation) use to dress conservatively and holy. Next to none of them do anymore.

i assume you are speaking of person dressing in fashion which does not seek to glorify themselves or their flesh in a manner that could be deemed to not glorify God . While we are not under the law ,It is disturbing is how many people jump to defend thier dress code ... where as those who LOVE the LORD JESUS jump to change anything that may offend our lord . its a matter of the heart

 

[Strong in Him]

great glad you dont adhere to osas . but on the other point i never said he leaves them,i said its no guarantee of salvation ..but i was being loose in explanation ,or lacking . what i mean is a person can say they have received the holy Spirit AND even speak in tongues but they deceive themselves if they do not go on to live and persevere in living in obedience to the lord Jesus .. people can speak in tongues by habit yet not be "FILLED" with the Holy Spirit having no love of the lord Jesus in them . Their tongue continues to clatter like a stick in an empty tin , and they use this too often to validate their standing with god , but they continue in disobedience and will not be saved at his coming -this is what i refer to .

Ok.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with you, but don't want to argue.

 

[jiminpa]

James 2:1-4.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Are most modern Pentecostals (and Charismatics) merely evangelical in doctrine, but believe a believer will speak in other tongues once they have been filled with the Holy Ghost?

I know that many elders and more revivalist ministers within the Assemblies of God denomination have expressed their concern that their congregations are nothing more than "evangelicals plus tongues" now. Many of them have tried to stress a stronger identification with classical Pentecostalism, Spirit baptism, the operation of the spiritual gifts, revivalism, and holiness.

But the trend of moderating from the roots of the Pentecostal faith seems to continue. Almost all arrows point to the emergence of the so-called Charismatic movement as the shifting views among classical Pentecostals. While the Charismatic movement brought the gifts of the Spirit into the mainline churches, it failed to embrace such Pentecostal taboos on dancing, going to movies, watching TV, and restrictions on one's outward attire. This sent classical Pentecostals into an identify crisis and forced them to reexamine what it meant for a believer to be Spirit-filled.

In many cases, it is hard to distinguish between many self-identifying Pentecostals and Charismatics today. Their doctrines have become blurred in many areas.

So are many Pentecostals today merely "evangelicals plus tongues"?

Pentecostals preach works + Jesus not Jesus alone in order to enter heaven.

 

[Alithis]

Pentecostals preach works + Jesus not Jesus alone in order to enter heaven.

good for them - Jesus himself said if your not a doer of the word your self deceived /unfruitful/ barren / no oil / cu off/ rejected / burned ... faith is a verb ..it is what you do because you believe .

 

[Traveling teacher]

You are saved by ...."FAITH ALONE".....

is not a verse in the Bible!!!!!

it does say the opposite however//....
james 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

 

[Alithis]

You are saved by ...."FAITH ALONE".....

is not a verse in the Bible!!!!!

it does say the opposite however//....
james 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

i believe he said " Jesus alone " .. and in essense he is correct but in practice he is wrong . because Jesus said why do you call me lord and yet dont do what i say .. so we see to believe in him is to obey and DO (odd but doing is an outer action ) what he says to do . those who dont , neither believe in him nor love him and will not be saved at his coming

 

[Si_monfaith]

good for them - Jesus himself said if your not a doer of the word your self deceived /unfruitful/ barren / no oil / cu off/ rejected / burned ... faith is a verb ..it is what you do because you believe .

Doer not to be saved but because one is save by faith alone.

 

[Si_monfaith]

You are saved by ...."FAITH ALONE".....

is not a verse in the Bible!!!!!

it does say the opposite however//....
james 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

Abraham was justified well before he sacrificed Issac.