So you think it’s impossible to form a logically sound argument for objective morality that’s true?
I can't think of a method for even identifying a moral fact....let alone proving it fact.
Now I don't want to be accused of being irrational or anything. I give some consideration for the possibility that someone else can identify and prove moral facts....and I simply can't for some reason, like maybe I'm just too dumb.
That doesn't appear to be the case though...I can't recall any philosophers making a verifiable argument. I'm even talking about atheists who believe in objective morality.
Sam Harris is a good example. He's a secular humanist, professor, PhD, and he's written multiple books about morality. He's a smart guy. He believes in objective morality.
I've heard him argue for it. His argument ultimately rests on a particular logical fallacy...an argument from incredulity. He says it more or less like this....and I'm paraphrasing here...
"If you can't agree in a basic moral fact like It's wrong for a person to cause harm to another person, I just don't know what to tell you."
I'm sure he's aware this is a logical fallacy...yet he rests his view of morality on it.
You eluded to a couple arguments you can think of that come close? Mind sharing?
Ok...here's one. It's basically an argument for moral determinism that is disguised as arising from circumstances.
Premise-No one can control the circumstances they exist in.
Premise-Circumstances dictate what behavioral choices are possible.
Premise-If reasons for choices exist before behavior is enacted.
Conclusion-then morals are objectively created by the circumstances one exists in.
This is, of course, assuming that morals are directly related to behavior. It is a fair assumption, since moral judgements are made about behavior. It has a couple of flaws and it can be undermined rather quickly.
You probably noticed that people spend a lot of time arguing about objective/subjective morality. I think this is the wrong sort of question to ask. I don't think it reveals anything substantial about morality regardless of which option one believes in.
Consider this...if I were you to ask you about morality of honesty and lying....I'm fairly certain that like 99% of people you would reply something like this...
It's morally good to express yourself honestly.
It's morally bad to lie.
Right? Studies show that on average, people lie about 40% of the time on any given day. We lie for all sorts of reasons, and while we may certainly feel bad about some of them...we don't feel bad about all of them. In fact, we probably think it's both good and moral to lie sometimes. For example, consider the sort of everyday lie that people say...
Your coworker is walking in the opposite direction as you and when he gets near....he says something like "Hey, how's it going?" Or "How are you doing?"....
Again, like most people, regardless of how you are actually doing...you probably respond with something like "I'm good, how are you?"
We can explore the many different reasons why people might express such a lie...but for now, let's just say the reason is something like the fact that you don't think it's right to burden him with your problems if you are having a difficult time...or perhaps you believe on some level his question is a lie...he doesn't really want to know how you are doing, therefore it's wrong to answer honestly. It's a sort exchange of pleasantries.
The point here is that we lie. We all do it. We all know we do it. We all sometimes see it as morally good.
So why do we say honesty is good and lying is bad when speaking about it morally? We're literally lying about the way we see it...on a moral level/dimension. If you've given it significant thought...you know you're lying, you know that the person that you put the moral question on is lying. Yet despite this....you, me, and nearly everyone else continues to tell the same lie about morality.
Why? That's what I want you to consider. You probably think there's lots of reasons...like the obvious one where we understand that to lie effectively, we must be seen as honest, so to admit to being liars may make it harder to lie. Another reason may be that we don't want to be lied to about something important. We understand that the truth has more value. If you keep considering the reasons why we tell each other this lie...you can possibly notice that the vast majority of the reasons could be grouped into two categories. If you consider why these two things are so important to us, you will understand a lot about morality.
I don't want to just throw out the conclusions I've come to....I know you're a God believing person, and I think you would reject it outright. That's why I want you to consider the above question. Come up with reasons. See if you can find a general way you can describe them...by generalizing the reasons into two different basic reasons.
Let me know what you think.
