Euthanasia

[OhSee]

Indifferent -
I consider the act of willful suicide to be an act of insanity. I feel that the psycian assisting is commiting murder in assisting in the suicide of a fellow human being. From a christian perspective I would have to say that assisting in, or commiting a suicide would be a great sin. Though I am not a christian nor do I believe in a god of any sort, I still feel that commiting suicide is murder. I cannot possibly imagine one desiring death, it is for lack of a better word illogical. Death is the end, for one to willfully allow death as an alternative to life is completely insane. If one is in so much torment that they disire death, it is only because they have allowed themself to be in that state. "Everything" is perspective, if one views pain as a negative thing, then it will be. On the same note, if one were to view death as a good thing, however insane, I couldn't say that it is morally wrong to commit suicide, though I would say that any one assisting is guilty of murder. Life is all we have, to end it is to give up. Commiting suicide because life became to dificult for you, is equivilant to breaking your nintendo because you couldn't defeat Gandalf. It is self defeating to end your life.

P.S. Do we have the right to end our own life?

 

[mnbvcxz87]

Interesting thoughts ohsee.

 

[Mling]

If one is in so much torment that they disire death, it is only because they have allowed themself to be in that state.

Recently, in my state, a gas explosion caused a house to be, literally, blown to bits. As nobody had actually used the propane tank in quite some time (don't cook on it, weren't trying to use the stove to heat the kitchen), there is no explanation yet for how it happened, and it appears to be a freak accident. Imagine there was a person in there, and he was still alive and conscious when he landed, on fire, and the rest of the flaming house landed on top of him.

How, exactly, would you see this as them "allowing themselves" to be in a state of torment, and why would it be illogical for them to think "I'm going to be dead in few minutes anyway; I don't think I want to see those few minutes"?

Factor in that this was in a very rural area. There is no way that an ambulance could have gotten there in time to save them.

PS: I don't know, but I think, if anybody has the right to end my life, it would be me.

 

[OhSee]

Those last few minutes of your life could be the greatest you ever expieriance. And besides there is no way of knowing when you are going to die. There is no such thing as cause and effect, blood and pain do not mean death.
Did you create yourself? If you believe you did then by all means you have the right to end your life. But if you take a scientific or diestic veiw then you are not your own creator, thusly you do not reserve the right to kill yourself.

 

[fillerbunny]

If you haven't yet been diagnosed with cancer, how can you truly make this claim?

In choosing *not* to
"DIE from Cancer-treatment-related CAUSES" as millions have/do/will,
I was Blessed with LIVING...even *abundantly* as Jesus said.

Conventional cancer treatments saved some of my friends' lives. No, they weren't pleasant to endure- but for those months of suffering, they have gained a second chance at life. From what I understand, they're most grateful.

As am I.

If one desires to reject treatment, I believe that is their right. However, if I'm ever diagnosed with a potentially treatable form of cancer, there is absolutely no question in my mind that I'm going to treat it. Medically.

 

[OhSee]

As for my veiws on such matters I would have to say that i would never wear a vest, because every momment I spend preventing death, I could have spent living. But that is not to say that I wouldn't dodge a bullet, so to speak.

 

[fillerbunny]

Those last few minutes of your life could be the greatest you ever expieriance. And besides there is no way of knowing when you are going to die. There is no such thing as cause and effect, blood and pain do not mean death.

If you've been crushed (as in the scenario provided), and your entire body is covered in severe burns, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet what is going to happen next. I think it's also a pretty safe bet that those last minutes aren't going to be particularly great.

Did you create yourself? If you believe you did then by all means you have the right to end your life. But if you take a scientific or diestic veiw then you are not your own creator, thusly you do not reserve the right to kill yourself.

What about personal freedoms? Obviously my perspective on life doesn't involve a deity.. so I guess you'd say my parents created me? However, I am my own person, and a legal adult to boot. This is my body, and I reserve the right to do with it as I see fit. I don't really see what a creator has to do with it. I am no one's property.

 

[OhSee]

You are implying that being crushed in half leads to death, this is an ignorant statement (no offence) and should be revised. As for you reserving the right to kill yourself, consider this...
Is the act of suicide an act of murder?
If so how is that murder diferent from killing your mother?

 

[wanderingone]

If one is in so much torment that they disire death, it is only because they have allowed themself to be in that state.

I'd suggest you haven't really thought that out. There are things that are much worse than pain that account for many people's reasoning on why they either no longer wish to continue treatments that don't increase their quality of life or wish to discontinue treatment and encourage the inevitable.

"Everything" is perspective, if one views pain as a negative thing, then it will be.

Pain in itself is not negative, it lets us know there's something wrong. While people can often learn pain management techniques that significantly increase the ability to function despite pain for many with terminal illness there is a point when pain can no longer be contained.

Commiting suicide because life became to dificult for you, is equivilant to breaking your nintendo because you couldn't defeat Gandalf. It is self defeating to end your life.

Hmm.. well if the nintendo was making your life so difficult that it was better to get rid of it then there's no problem with dumping it. If life has become unbearable and all treatments and therapies have failed to provide a significant change in prognosis I can't say it's reasonable for me to insist someone is insane for not wanting to live with various limitations and pain.

 

[OhSee]

Nothing external can inhibit one from living fully. Ones own perspective on the matter is the limiting factor. If you find it to dificult to live with pain, then there is internal error, pain is a view, it can be changed. There is no such thing as objective suffering, it is all relative... Thusly by admiting defeat to pain you are only admiting deafeat to yourself. It is self deafeating to slay yourself, literally. There is no conceiveable reason to end your existance other than computing error.

 

[wanderingone]

Nothing external can inhibit one from living fully. Ones own perspective on the matter is the limiting factor. If you find it to dificult to live with pain, then there is internal error, pain is a view, it can be changed. There is no such thing as objective suffering, it is all relative... Thusly by admiting defeat to pain you are only admiting deafeat to yourself. It is self deafeating to slay yourself, literally. There is no conceiveable reason to end your existance other than computing error.

I understand the concept that pain is not "real" it's usually something people who haven't had significant long lasting pain insist on.

Life ending is inevitable, if you have the right to use tactics to control pain (and you're not addressing the point that it's not always about pain) why wouldn't you have the right to end your suffering?

 

[OhSee]

Ok, what other reason is there other then pain?
And its not just about the right to end your life, it's about the reasoning behind it. There is no "logical" reason for ending ones life. It's a matter of existance or non-existance. The answer seems clear to me...

 

[LightHorseman]

Thusly by admiting defeat to pain you are only admiting deafeat to yourself

The difference between the abstraction of pain and the reality of it is quite a leap. See if you think this is true after working in a cancer ward for a week or two. Filling the cavity of a deep fungating tumor in a patient's jaw bone might make you feel a little more open to the importance of other people's subjectivity

 

[LightHorseman]

There is no "logical" reason for ending ones life. It's a matter of existance or non-existance.

This is only true if you receive some benefit from continued existance. If you perceive no benfit, or any likelihood of benefit occuring in the future, then indeed it would seem logical to opt for non-existance.

 

[OhSee]

How can you say there is unlikelyhood of positive existance? Are you god do you know your future? Either way life is the most amazing thing, you are a free agent, enjoy it... Every last drop.

 

[LightHorseman]

How can you say there is unlikelyhood of positive existance? Are you god do you know your future? Either way life is the most amazing thing, you are a free agent, enjoy it... Every last drop.

Again... spend a week in a cancer word with a terminally ill, metastisised patient whose every waking moment is agony.

Theres a big difference between telling a depressed, angst ridden teenager that things will get better, and telling someone with nothing to look forward to but a painful, lingering, undignified death that they should hang in there cos you never know whats around the corner...

I'm not saying that people should be able to throw the switch the instant they receive a bad diagnosis, but then, I've never heard of anyone wanting to at that point. But after you have undergone massive, invasive, painful therapies, and all medical attempts have failed to stop cancer spreading (cancer being the disease I am professionally familiar with, but feel free to use others) and the patient is in serious agony... why prolong the inevitable if death will be a release?

 

[OhSee]

Life, life my friend is reason for existing. You have free will, and that never ceases, even under extreme circumstances. You may feel there is no reason to go on, but that is only because you have forgotten the fact that you are free to make choices. Why would you sacrifice that by making your final choice. It just seems foolish.

 

[LightHorseman]

Life, life my friend is reason for existing. You have free will, and that never ceases, even under extreme circumstances. You may feel there is no reason to go on, but that is only because you have forgotten the fact that you are free to make choices. Why would you sacrifice that by making your final choice. It just seems foolish.

I'm not talking about people who are feeling a bit blue, I'm talking about people in serious agony, with no hope of releif other than death. If all you are capable of is writhing until you are too exhausted t move in a hospital bed, unable to perform even the most basic tasks of daily living without help... I don't know how much "choice" we are really talking about.

Euthenasia shouldn't be a cop out for people with other options... but there comes a point where death is the ONLY thing in a person's future... so why is euthanasia seen as such a bad thing for these people? And I use the tired old example, if it was your beloved family dog in the same degree of pain, and nothing medical science could do would make it better, you'd put him down, right?

 

[OhSee]

The point is missed, humans have a free will up until they die. Pain however horrible is none the less a state of mind, and can be changed. But when one willfully chooses to stop making any future choices they are commiting an ultimate offence against oneself. And as for the family dog, I would never have a 'pet', animals have a free will aswell, and I wouldn't want to diminish that by taking a free being as my own and making it my prisoner/slave.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

OhSee, we'll talk again about the "ultimate offence against oneself" if you should ever happen to suffer from abdominal cancer and start to puke feces, or when your future choices are reduced to spending a few hours or even days in screaming agony, waiting for death to take you at last.