Ethnocentrism

[Montalban]

Again, the spanish conquest, and the systematic erradication of the pagan religions doesn't support that. And the current missionary directive

Cire me the teachings of Christ used for the Spanish conquest.
I don't know what 'the current missionary directive' means.

You sure about that? Hitler explained his actions as lead by his Lord and Savior. If you don't believe that Nazism was in part a Christian organization, then please explain why they Aryan Nation(Nazi remnants) today is known as the Church of Jesus Christ Christian

Hitler also said he wanted only to restore Germany's pre-war boundaries.
Was Hitler a Christian?
The claim is sometimes made that Hitler was a Christian - a Roman Catholic until the day he died. In fact, Hitler rejected Christianity.

The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, _Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, ******s? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:

There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold .” (p 278)
http://answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html

also see
“Christianity is an invention of sick brains,” Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941.
“So it's not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death,” Adolf Hitler, 14 October 1941.
http://kevin.davnet.org/essays/hitler.html

Sorry your history doesn't support that. Your missionaries today use such loving tactics of conversion as sending bibles to starving peoples instead of food, or in direct relief situations withholding food and medicine until they've had a chance to prostelyze.

Oh, please! Your say so doesn't cut it.

Sorry for the late reply, though

 

[urnotme]

You thought wrong then. This is just another ploy of the missionaries to silence the Hindus that are showing some interest in their own Vedic tradition for a change.

It just shows how cunning, arrogant and insensitive these missionaries are to the hand that feeds them.

satay

I thought that was why you posted the artiicle, so you could say even theese christians want to be like us. How do you know the hindus aren't trying to convert the catholics? They aren't there just to visit.

 

[MortonGneiss]

Cite me the teachings of Christ used for the Spanish conquest.
I don't know what 'the current missionary directive' means.

I'm not going to read your bible for you, I've done enough handholding in this thread. Start with the OT accounts of God promoted genocide and go from there. Or read about Cortez. Seriously it's an essay in itself to draw this obvious parallel.

Missionary directive is make 'them' into 'us'.

Hitler also said he wanted only to restore Germany's pre-war boundaries.
Was Hitler a Christian?

I already answered this, and sorry about the confusion on the matter. I didn't mean to imply that he was of a denomination:

I should have clarified that, he expressed those sentiments, but I don't believe that he was of any Christian denomination. It was simply a tool.

Oh, please! Your say so doesn't cut it.

Sorry for the late reply, though

Stay up late and watch religious tv..you will see them asking for money to send bibles to starving children. Faith in Action is great for sending bibles to famine victims in Sudan. SWI is a good one for that too. Ministries in Zambia are sick too. Any place that has a population that's 40% at risk of starvation should be sent food, not Jesus.

 

[urnotme]

I'm not going to read your bible for you, I've done enough handholding in this thread. Start with the OT accounts of God promoted genocide and go from there. Or read about Cortez. Seriously it's an essay in itself to draw this obvious parallel.

Missionary directive is make 'them' into 'us'.



I already answered this, and sorry about the confusion on the matter. I didn't mean to imply that he was of a denomination:






Stay up late and watch religious tv..you will see them asking for money to send bibles to starving children. .

Hitler used the bible to promote war, That doesn't mean he was a christian, or a jew or anyhing else. The televangellists ask for money to send both food and bibles.

 

[MortonGneiss]

Hitler used the bible to promote war, That doesn't mean he was a christian, or a jew or anyhing else. The televangellists ask for money to send both food and bibles.

I've already said that. But doesn't that show us that the Bible can be used to that end? Isn't that a perfect illustration of what interpretations of the bible can lead to? Belief leads to action, my friend. And the Bible opens the door to 'that' kind of belief.

 

[Montalban]

I'm not going to read your bible for you, I've done enough handholding in this thread. Start with the OT accounts of God promoted genocide and go from there. Or read about Cortez. Seriously it's an essay in itself to draw this obvious parallel.

I've read "The Conquest of New Spain" by Diaz, and I've read the Bible, which is probably more than you; at leat you've evidenced nothing to show you've read either.
However, if you're going to start ranting about Christianity, it would help if you could evidence something. The idea of me going and researching to prove you right is quite funny, but consistant with the rest of your factless groanings.

Missionary directive is make 'them' into 'us'.

Where is this directive?

I already answered this, and sorry about the confusion on the matter. I didn't mean to imply that he was of a denomination

Never said that he was, either. You've offered no link between Christianity and Hitler's fanaticism. I've in fact offered direct refutation against any such link by citign Hitler's opinion of Christianity.

Stay up late and watch religious tv..you will see them asking for money to send bibles to starving children. Faith in Action is great for sending bibles to famine victims in Sudan. SWI is a good one for that too. Ministries in Zambia are sick too. Any place that has a population that's 40% at risk of starvation should be sent food, not Jesus.

Okay. It'd probably not be as entertaining as what's on offer by you here though.

Still, if you could just inject a little more than your own 'knowledgeable' opinion, that would be great.

 

[Montalban]

I've already said that. But doesn't that show us that the Bible can be used to that end? Isn't that a perfect illustration of what interpretations of the bible can lead to? Belief leads to action, my friend. And the Bible opens the door to 'that' kind of belief.

Christianity doesn't though.

 

[MortonGneiss]

Christianity doesn't though.

I'll make one last try with you, then I'm going to ignore you.

Christianity doesn't create beliefs that cause harm? Ever read the Witch Hammer? Malleus Maleficarum. It's an entire treatise on how best to kill witches, wizards, and heretics and is all based on a few pieces of scripture. It created an organization of Inquisitors, that was Papally sanctioned, whose duty was to carry out it's presciption in the name of Lord, and it was heavily practiced throughout Europe. Though the most famous is of their ilk was Torquemada and his Spanish Inquisition. And these beliefs were practiced as late 1692, in Salem no less.

 

[Montalban]

I'll make one last try with you, then I'm going to ignore you.

Good, because you've ignored my question to you:
Cite the teachings of Christ that were used to support these 'horrible' things!

The best you've come up with is 'go research the answer for me'.

And indeed, any person can pick up the Bible and take any verse and use it for any purpose. Many have. The T'ai-ping rebellion (c.mid 1800s in China) was based on a guy who read the Bible - newly translated into Chinese, and came to the conclusion that he was Jesus' younger brother. That rebellion is the bloodiest 'civil war' in world history.

However he cited no teachings of Christ in order to maintain that cause. You've shown none that anyone has used either.

Instead, you're simply happy to chant your anti-Christian mantra as if merely repeating the words makes it so. So much for rational debate!

 

[arunma]

Cortez's actions were dictated by his beliefs. His beliefs were in direct accordance with those of the Church at that time. Are you seeing the connection yet?

Well, I do see that there is no connection whatsoever. But I think the answer you were looking for is more along the lines of "You're right! Thanks to my conversations with you, I have truly seen that Christianity is a false religion, and that Jesus is not the Son of God. Excuse me while I renounce Christ and burn my Bible."

Christianity is, and always will be an apocalypse cult.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

John is propably the most fictitious of the 4, if you agree with Q and Markian priority. Which I do.

Actually I was referring to the movie, not the book. But my guess is that you reject the Gospel of John to the greatest extent because you disagree with it the most, and that you really have no objective reason for doing so.

Any missionary that plans to operate in India is equally guilty, however.

Guilty of giving the words of eternal life to those who are lost in the worship of false deities? Why thank you!

Pay attention cause this is the point. Missionaries going to India are doing so to get people there to abandon Hinduism and follow Christianity.

And blessed be the Name of the Lord.

Which tells us they, and anyone who supports their effort, believe a) Christianity is superior and b) Christianity is superior I realize that is technically only one point, but I felt that it was so important it was worth mentioning twice.

Thank you for mentioning it twice, but I'll save you the trouble. Christianity is superior to the false religion of Hinduism. While I'm at it, Christianity is also superior to Islam, and any other religion you might mention. At this point, I hope you'll stop accusing me of claiming that I am superior.

I haven't said that. I've said Christianity is the dominant religion in Western Civ., and has had tremendous influence on it, there is a big difference.

I only wish that Christianity were the dominant religion in Western civilization.

The Constitution doesn't inspire people to have abortions...

Tell that to the people who claim to have a "right to privacy."

And with the number of Christians that claimed God caused the hurricane as divine retribution for human sin

So? A number of white people also committed crimes on my university campus this month. I suppose that makes the whole lot of them criminals.

I'm not going to read your bible for you, I've done enough handholding in this thread. Start with the OT accounts of God promoted genocide and go from there. Or read about Cortez.

If I may translate your words, you seem to be saying: please make my argument for me.

I read my Bible. I know that Moses ordered the destruction of Gentile towns, that Joshua killed even the children among the Canaanites, and that God ordered King Saul to not take any prisoners among the Amalekites. In fact, I'm aware of virtually every atrocity that is mentioned in the Bible. As you can tell, I'm still a Christian, and I still hold to an orthodox interpretation of Scripture. And before you wish to go on to extrabiblical atrocities, I know that Christian crusaders killed Jews on their way to Muslim lands, that Christians in Europe burned heretics at the stake, and that the Catholic Church ordered the murder of entire communities of Jews. I don't wish to boast, but there really isn't much you can tell me that I don't already know.

Do you really think that any of us are going to surrender the free gift of eternal life to you? You would have an easier time convincing a rich man to give you his wealth.

Stay up late and watch religious tv..you will see them asking for money to send bibles to starving children.

No thank you. I don't subscribe to heresy, which is precisely what TBN and most other religious television shows are.

Any place that has a population that's 40% at risk of starvation should be sent food, not Jesus.

Maybe you should send food to the Zambians instead of telling the church what to do. When you become a Christian, then you can defend the faith by telling us how to spend our money (not that my church doesn't feed the poor while preaching the Gospel). Until then, we could spend all of the tithes on lemonade for the next church barbecue, and still you are not entitled to criticize our financial practices.

 

[MortonGneiss]

Good, because you've ignored my question to you:
Cite the teachings of Christ that were used to support these 'horrible' things!

I can cite plenty of Biblical passages to support my claims. If you're asking me to show where Jesus himself commanded them be done...well that's whole different ball of wax. I'm talking about institutional Christianity, what the Church decrees and what Jesus said have never had much in common. There aren't many Christians that have given away all their money and worldly possesions, and they frequently go to Church even though Jesus didn't support going to Church. Jesus was very clear on upholding all of God's laws and commandments, however, and those are where I can account for their behavior.

 

[Montalban]

I'll make one last try with you, then I'm going to ignore you.

Obviously some aren't interested in discussion; only interest is to spout diatribe.

We've agreed that the Bible can be misused. In fact this points to your confusion; you attack Christianity, without drawing any direct link between it's Christians and Christ's teachings but at the same time acknowledge that this there is 'misuse' of the Bible.

 

[arunma]

Obviously some aren't interested in discussion; only interest is to spout diatribe.

We've agreed that the Bible can be misused. In fact this points to your confusion; you attack Christianity, without drawing any direct link between it's Christians and Christ's teachings but at the same time acknowledge that this there is 'misuse' of the Bible.

I wonder...if I slap someone with a Bible, then have I misused the Gospel of our Lord for evil?

 

[MortonGneiss]

No thank you. I don't subscribe to heresy, which is precisely what TBN and most other religious television shows are.

What makes your sect superior? Why are they the heretics and not you?

 

[Montalban]

I can cite plenty of Biblical passages to support my claims.

No, you cited two verses from the OT without showing how these relate to what Jesus taught.
e.g.
There's verses in the OT about honouring the Sabbath, but Jesus broke the Sabbath and said it's not 'of God' but 'of man' thus not everything in the OT is an example of what Jesus taught.
You've yet to make that link.

Other examples of the case in point are; Lot slept with his daughters. Nowhere does this say this is an 'example' to be followed.

David slew his general, so that he could sleep with the wife. Again this is not a tale of 'example.'

So simply spouting off two verses does not mean anything without a context... showing a link

If you're asking me to show where Jesus himself commanded them be done...well that's whole different ball of wax.

Why? Christians follow Christ.

I'm talking about institutional Christianity, what the Church decrees and what Jesus said have never had much in common.

Many problems here; you never specified, you just attacked Christianity per se, as if it were on a par with my critique of Islam.
Secondly there is no 'the church' representative of all Christianity; my church didn't have a crusade, so any such 'example' doesn't address 'the institution' to which I belong, so again your attack is misdirected.
Third, that you accept that Christians haven't always followed Christ is in fact why your example of Christianity is not on par with my critique of Islam.
I can show Islamic teaching, the behaviour of Muhammed, and the behaviour of Moselms now, to show a link.
You can't do the same for Christianity, Christ, and Christians.

There aren't many Christians that have given away all their money and worldly possesions, and they frequently go to Church even though Jesus didn't support going to Church.

Jesus didn't support going to Church? Cite references.

Jesus was very clear on upholding all of God's laws and commandments, however, and those are where I can account for their behavior.

Now you seem to be going back on what you said earlier about only attacking 'institutional Christianity'.

You need to focus.
F-O-C-U-S

 

[Montalban]

I wonder...if I slap someone with a Bible, then have I misused the Gospel of our Lord for evil?

If I send you my address can you come around my place with a Bible?

 

[MortonGneiss]

Obviously some aren't interested in discussion; only interest is to spout diatribe.

We've agreed that the Bible can be misused. In fact this points to your confusion; you attack Christianity, without drawing any direct link between it's Christians and Christ's teachings but at the same time acknowledge that this there is 'misuse' of the Bible.

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is a command in the OT and part of God's laws. Something Jesus says he upholds here:

Mathew 5:17-19
Luke 16:16-17
John 7:15-17
John 2:3-5
John 5:2-3

I would imagine the 'Witch Hammer' which cites that piece of scripture, was directly drawing from scripture.

Want me to draw a picture as well?

 

[MortonGneiss]

Now you seem to be going back on what you said earlier about only attacking 'institutional Christianity'.

You need to focus.
F-O-C-U-S

I wanted to be clear on what you meant, sorry I cared.

 

[Montalban]

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is a command in the OT and part of God's laws. Something Jesus says he upholds here:

Mathew 5:17-19
Luke 16:16-17
John 7:15-17
John 2:3-5
John 5:2-3

I would imagine the 'Witch Hammer' which cites that piece of scripture, was directly drawing from scripture.

Again, thanks for ignoring the several examples I cited;
Sabbath
Lot
David

Jesus proclaimed a 'new covenant'.

He also expanded and changed 'the law'
Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you...

There's a difference between the laws that God gave 'for man', and those 'to man for God'.


Anyway...
John 2:3-5 says...
3 When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."
4 "Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."
5 His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."

John 5:2-3 says
2 Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool, which in Aramaic is called Bethesda[a] and which is surrounded by five covered colonnades. 3 Here a great number of disabled people used to lie—the blind, the lame, the paralyzed.

Nice to read, but what's it got to do with your beliefs?

Want me to draw a picture as well?

You certainly have trouble 'drawing' a link.

 

[Montalban]

I wanted to be clear on what you meant, sorry I cared.

If you meant to be 'clear' about your attack on 'institutional Christianity', then you should have said so at the beginning.

No need to thank me for pointing these things out.