Recently my old youth pastor started dating someone my age from the youth. They started while her and I were still dating (after 2 years of us together). Now I am over that part, but it still seems wrong that a man in his position would do that. While it is not illegal because it happened 5 1/2 months after he left...he still had an authorative position and was a spiritual leader. Also the age difference doesnt seem right. While she just graduated high school, he is 26 years old...8 years out of high school. Now I dont know if this is truly wrong, or because of what they did to me I feel it was wrong. He thought we were broken up for 2 weeks before he started anything with her (there was a misunderstanding)...
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Ethics...is this wrong
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Addaperle
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IMHO, I'd say yes, but that's because the rules of the Community I work for say that it is inappropriate to date anyone you minister to, but that includes other adults (so teachers in schools we visit, etc)... But I realise our rules are probably stricter than most.
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KagomeShuko
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I don't have anything against age differences. My family and friends have ALL kinds of age differences in the dating/marriage relationship. As you get older, you realize that age really is just a number and nothing else (usually, anyway).
I'm not too keen on the whole part that it happened while you were still dating the girl, but if he's no longer the minister, there's really nothing wrong.
Stein Auf!
Bridget
I'm not too keen on the whole part that it happened while you were still dating the girl, but if he's no longer the minister, there's really nothing wrong.
Stein Auf!
Bridget
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Hi
I have mixed feelings on this If he is no longer a minister then it is still a fine line because he was the minister to this girl when she was a minor. Also techniquelly if he is no longer her minister and she is of age I don't know. At any rate what happened happened It is wrong to take from someone else but then am not judging.
I have mixed feelings on this If he is no longer a minister then it is still a fine line because he was the minister to this girl when she was a minor. Also techniquelly if he is no longer her minister and she is of age I don't know. At any rate what happened happened It is wrong to take from someone else but then am not judging.
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You know, that seems rather inappropriate for him to do that. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned though ...
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PastorJason
Ordo Concentus Christos
In my denomination, this would be cause for an investigation of ministerial ethics, with the possibility of the minister losing his standing in the clergy of the church. I, as a youth pastor, see this as a definite ethics violation. Here's why:
1. She is now of legal age of consent. When their pastoral relationship began, she was not.
2. Their relationship started as one of unequal power, as he was a minister, a person of definite influence in her life.
3. Where I come from, pastors who leave a church do not continue to have contact with the church they have left, in order to allow a new pastor the ability to begin the process of building love and trust with the congregation.
4. His actions may call into question possible actions of future youth pastors, both to the youth involved, and to their parents.
If he had been anything but the youth pastor at this church (except maybe the senior pastor), I'd have no problem with it. But he is a member of the clergy. This means that while he is not inherently "better" than a layperson, he has, I assume, been called by God to be set apart for ministry. He is held to a higher standard. Period.
Just my two cents,
PJ
1. She is now of legal age of consent. When their pastoral relationship began, she was not.
2. Their relationship started as one of unequal power, as he was a minister, a person of definite influence in her life.
3. Where I come from, pastors who leave a church do not continue to have contact with the church they have left, in order to allow a new pastor the ability to begin the process of building love and trust with the congregation.
4. His actions may call into question possible actions of future youth pastors, both to the youth involved, and to their parents.
If he had been anything but the youth pastor at this church (except maybe the senior pastor), I'd have no problem with it. But he is a member of the clergy. This means that while he is not inherently "better" than a layperson, he has, I assume, been called by God to be set apart for ministry. He is held to a higher standard. Period.
Just my two cents,
PJ
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Some have mentioned age. I have no problem with that. I am just wondering...him as our youth minister 6 months ago...is it ethical for him to start a relationship with a girl 5 months after he left whom he once ministered to. Ignore that I was involved. What is the boundary there...more importantly what is God's boundary. Obviously it is a foolish decision no matter how you look at it...a girl who is 18...still living at home and off her parents (as she will be at her very expensive college too)...and only a believer for one year...with no one who really discipled her except him (I was a horrible boyfriend and was spiritually dead for the most part)...I do not see anything about her that would make her mature enough to meet a youth pastors standards. While she is a great person...in retrospect I wouldnt date her now...she lied about a lot of stuff...and just the fact that she could betray someone whom she professed love openly too...after 2 years...just seems off. I have learned that my church is not too against it...that they have said 'dont put love in a box'...but honestly...can they see this as wise at all. I am going in tomorrow to clarify their stance...because if they support it...I dont know...I cant leave because I am developing a ministry as people in the youth trust me more and see how I have responded to this (its sad that Im leaving in August to go up to the college level...as my college is only 20 minutes away).
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KagomeShuko
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Okay, I see what you're saying, and actually, I'm not really sure. I mean he did LEAVE the position. I have no problem with AGE either. . ya never know. I think age really quits being a matter of importance once a person hits 21 or is at least mature enough after they're 21.
However, the ministry thing is quite confusing. It's a definite no if he's the current minister to this girl. The fact that he left makes it confusing to me. I don't think I could ever date a guy just like "that" after being a minster to him. I mean, officially, obviously.
I see why your concern if she is that way. I mean, though, you can never say how a person is going to be in any relationship. The idea of this guy dating the girl so quickly after being her minister doesn't seem so right to me. But, as I said, it seems to be a confusing point.
A good question is did he leave the ministry because he wanted to date her or did he leave it for another reason and then start dating her?
Stein Auf!
Bridget
However, the ministry thing is quite confusing. It's a definite no if he's the current minister to this girl. The fact that he left makes it confusing to me. I don't think I could ever date a guy just like "that" after being a minster to him. I mean, officially, obviously.
I see why your concern if she is that way. I mean, though, you can never say how a person is going to be in any relationship. The idea of this guy dating the girl so quickly after being her minister doesn't seem so right to me. But, as I said, it seems to be a confusing point.
A good question is did he leave the ministry because he wanted to date her or did he leave it for another reason and then start dating her?
Stein Auf!
Bridget
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swingnscream
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chrisd53 said:
KagomeShuko said:
Well in that kind of case you basically run into another classic case of knight in shining armour / hero rescue. I mean if she was still a young/baby Christian no doubt she's gonna fall for a guy who able to be a spiritual leader in her life. Yeah it's kinda weird, but super common if you take off the titles and just look at it like that.
I guess if you're going to stick with the question, was it wrong for him ...well it wasn't the wisest thing he could do, but I suppose everyone miss a beat every once & again. Hopefully it'll work ok in the end too. ...I always worry about baby Christians who also try to juggle dating, that's complicated.
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Ditto PJ's comments above.
Regardless of the young womans maturity level, its the maturity level of a 26 year old male seeking a relationship with a 18 year old that is VERY questionable, the responsibility falls on him, especially this situation. Am I safe to assume the age's were 17/25, or did it go even younger?
And here's a somewhat off-topic question: where in the world was/is the girls father in all this? Who's watching out for the girls best interest? Just a curiousity ...
Blessings,
Keith
Regardless of the young womans maturity level, its the maturity level of a 26 year old male seeking a relationship with a 18 year old that is VERY questionable, the responsibility falls on him, especially this situation. Am I safe to assume the age's were 17/25, or did it go even younger?
And here's a somewhat off-topic question: where in the world was/is the girls father in all this? Who's watching out for the girls best interest? Just a curiousity ...
Blessings,
Keith
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Keith 910 said:
I don't think it's off topic at all... the same question went through my mind. Something is off-kilter here... I think there's more to the story we haven't heard yet.
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Highland Watchman
Keeping watch from my ebony tower
There are little red flags that are going up here.
For one, as was already mentioned, he was the only real spiritual mentor in her life, and especially, he was an official pastor to her, which really kind of makes things rather edgy. Here in Canada, it IS actually a legal matter... sexual misconduct. But even beyond the legalities of it, as I know not every country has the same legal stuff, there still is a power/authority imbalance here, which will have VERY wonky dynamics further down the road, if they are not already wonky.
Second, there is the timing of the whole thing. This girl was currently with someone else when they started dating. Even if there were misunderstandings and he thought they were broken up for 2 weeks... consider this: is 2 weeks long enough of a break between such serious relationships? I would think not. And especially if this guy was not 100% certain that this was the truth (which apparently, it wasn't). Breakups take a while to heal, and I hesitate to advise anyone to pursue that kind of relationship with ANYONE so close to a breakup, especially if the person I am advising is the one just broken up.
And I don't think that 5 months absense is a long enough time before even considering dating. If he was gone for a year or more and she had more time to develop spiritually, without his influence, then this part of it may not be as much of an issue.
Third, I am grieved by the church's reaction to this. You say that they rebuked you and told you to not hinder love, and to not keep love in a box? That's funny, because what is happening here is no more love than the "Love" that is proclaimed by the media, which is really just hormones, lust and sexual attraction. For one, this girl lied and this relationship started in deception. True love means standing up for the truth and for the best interests of the one who you love. It does not mean sitting silently as one of your own is stumbling in sin because you don't want to sound "judgmental"... I can see by the ministry with youth at your church that you are not in a position to leave right now. But you can still say something, even to the senior pastor, who can address it in a more public and official manner.
The age question, I am not really too sure about. Some say it is just a number, especially after a certain age, but what is that age, and what are the limits? I have a friend who is 25 who is interested in a girl who is 18 (but turning 19 in December), which would be a 6 1/2 year difference, and I have no clue as to what to tell this guy because I really don't know. In the case of the OP, though, the fact that their relationship most likely started when she was younger, (though not officially) is what makes me begin to question, because dating minors is a legal issue, as well as a sketchy moral one, namely pedophilia.
For one, as was already mentioned, he was the only real spiritual mentor in her life, and especially, he was an official pastor to her, which really kind of makes things rather edgy. Here in Canada, it IS actually a legal matter... sexual misconduct. But even beyond the legalities of it, as I know not every country has the same legal stuff, there still is a power/authority imbalance here, which will have VERY wonky dynamics further down the road, if they are not already wonky.
Second, there is the timing of the whole thing. This girl was currently with someone else when they started dating. Even if there were misunderstandings and he thought they were broken up for 2 weeks... consider this: is 2 weeks long enough of a break between such serious relationships? I would think not. And especially if this guy was not 100% certain that this was the truth (which apparently, it wasn't). Breakups take a while to heal, and I hesitate to advise anyone to pursue that kind of relationship with ANYONE so close to a breakup, especially if the person I am advising is the one just broken up.
And I don't think that 5 months absense is a long enough time before even considering dating. If he was gone for a year or more and she had more time to develop spiritually, without his influence, then this part of it may not be as much of an issue.
Third, I am grieved by the church's reaction to this. You say that they rebuked you and told you to not hinder love, and to not keep love in a box? That's funny, because what is happening here is no more love than the "Love" that is proclaimed by the media, which is really just hormones, lust and sexual attraction. For one, this girl lied and this relationship started in deception. True love means standing up for the truth and for the best interests of the one who you love. It does not mean sitting silently as one of your own is stumbling in sin because you don't want to sound "judgmental"... I can see by the ministry with youth at your church that you are not in a position to leave right now. But you can still say something, even to the senior pastor, who can address it in a more public and official manner.
The age question, I am not really too sure about. Some say it is just a number, especially after a certain age, but what is that age, and what are the limits? I have a friend who is 25 who is interested in a girl who is 18 (but turning 19 in December), which would be a 6 1/2 year difference, and I have no clue as to what to tell this guy because I really don't know. In the case of the OP, though, the fact that their relationship most likely started when she was younger, (though not officially) is what makes me begin to question, because dating minors is a legal issue, as well as a sketchy moral one, namely pedophilia.
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bliz said:
Well...just to cover what I might have missed...we broke up and a week later they started their 'dating'. He is in Colorado...very far from here...so it is long distance. I havent had contact with her or her family since it happened. I know at the time her dad told me 'if you honestly think I would let my daughter date a 26 year old man...you are very mistaken'...however he let it happen. I dont think she is being truthful with him about it...she said he was just a 'councelor'...
I addressed the Music minister who had apparently said 'dont put love in a box'...that is not what he meant. He said the timing was bad, but they cant do anything about it. He actually was furious when he first heard about it as Patrick (the youth minister) was a good friend of his. He almost went up to Colorado that moment to confront him face to face.
Anyways...Patrick is now a youth minister in Colorado. I think at some church in Denver...I really dont care anymore...God has given me peace about it...sometimes you have to let 'friends' go...and this is one of those times.
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I am beginning to realize the pain that Patrick has caused me. Honestly, how many friends would do that to you? How many friends following Christ would do that to you? Learned a lesson...everyone is human and everyone will screw up. I just wish he understood that what he did was wrong.
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Ceris
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To echo what one other person in this thread said, especially if you take into account the fact that it seems this girl hasn't quite told her father the entire truth about Patrick, is that this relationship started in deception - or at least not in complete honesty.
It seems after a month this whole senario is still bothering you - at least enough to make you ressurect your own thread on it. May I ask if anything has happed to make this one again a concern? Has anything in paticular happened or has this arisen from simply spending more time reflecting upon the whole thing?
God Bless,
Ceris
P.S. To all those that read this, I hope am I guess "qualified" to be able to post here as I am pursuing ministry, but at the time am still in college.
It seems after a month this whole senario is still bothering you - at least enough to make you ressurect your own thread on it. May I ask if anything has happed to make this one again a concern? Has anything in paticular happened or has this arisen from simply spending more time reflecting upon the whole thing?
God Bless,
Ceris
P.S. To all those that read this, I hope am I guess "qualified" to be able to post here as I am pursuing ministry, but at the time am still in college.
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