Ethical stem cells

[Malleeboy]

Many including myself had issues with the use of stem cells in the creation of Covid vaccines, due to unethical sourcing. (On the balance of good to those around me, I took the vax, but I can see some Now whatever you end stance on this, shouldn't we as Christians seek to ensure that vaccines are available for use by all peoples.

1) Seek to create ethical stem cell lines that companies can use in place of the current unethical ones.
2) Once created, seek to encourage use by pharma companies. Highlighting that using ethical stem cell line would give them a considerable market advantage, faithful Christians (and other faith groups who see abortion as unethical) would prefer their product.

Does anyone know if such a group exists already? Or a Gofund me type way already exists to support this suggestion?

 

[Nithavela]

Many including myself had issues with the use of stem cells in the creation of Covid vaccines, due to unethical sourcing. (On the balance of good to those around me, I took the vax, but I can see some Now whatever you end stance on this, shouldn't we as Christians seek to ensure that vaccines are available for use by all peoples.

1) Seek to create ethical stem cell lines that companies can use in place of the current unethical ones.
2) Once created, seek to encourage use by pharma companies. Highlighting that using ethical stem cell line would give them a considerable market advantage, faithful Christians (and other faith groups who see abortion as unethical) would prefer their product.

Does anyone know if such a group exists already? Or a Gofund me type way already exists to support this suggestion?

The technology to de-differentiate adult stem cells is still in development. Once it is and iPSCs and their creation are well researched, they'll be used.

You have to be okay with genetic manipulation of the human genome, though. So my guess is that there will be more christian groups opposing than supporting this kind of technology. It's always easier to get angry about something.

 

[pdudgeon]

I agree with the above conclusion:
that messing with human cells is a definite banner-waving way to offend those who are Christian, and who are aware of the spiritual nuances of re- using human cells for a purpose that they were not intended for by God.
In short:
1. God created those cells.
2. He had a specific purpose for every single cell.
3. The idea of "repurposing" or "reusing" those cells for something other than what God intended is no different (and no less abhorrent) than re-using human body parts or body cells for experimentation.
4. God had a specific idea and purpose for the creation of those specific cells. So when man steps in, and harvests body parts or cells for a different purpose, he trespasses on God's perogitive to decide who gets which cells, and for what purpose they will be used.
We have laws against trespassing on property that belongs to someone else.
We have laws against using another person's words without their permission.
We have laws against theft.
So why is it that somehow we feel that body parts of a person that we don't know can be harvested, changed, and recycled for a purpose that Our Creator never intended??
Something to think about.

 

[Sabertooth]

Ethical stem cells

There appears to be two problems with fetal stem cells:

1. Were they ethically sourced? In most cases, no.
2. If ethically sourced (like placenta, amniotic fluid, and umbilical cord blood), are they therapeutic? That appears to be "no," as well.

Though ethics is not a question for #2, fetal cells have been shown to initiate more cancer than adult cells have.

 

[Nithavela]

I agree with the above conclusion:
that messing with human cells is a definite banner-waving way to offend those who are Christian, and who are aware of the spiritual nuances of re- using human cells for a purpose that they were not intended for by God.
In short:
1. God created those cells.
2. He had a specific purpose for every single cell.
3. The idea of "repurposing" or "reusing" those cells for something other than what God intended is no different (and no less abhorrent) than re-using human body parts or body cells for experimentation.
4. God had a specific idea and purpose for the creation of those specific cells. So when man steps in, and harvests body parts or cells for a different purpose, he trespasses on God's perogitive to decide who gets which cells, and for what purpose they will be used.
We have laws against trespassing on property that belongs to someone else.
We have laws against using another person's words without their permission.
We have laws against theft.
So why is it that somehow we feel that body parts of a person that we don't know can be harvested, changed, and recycled for a purpose that Our Creator never intended??
Something to think about.

What about my own body cells? Why should I not be allowed to have them be used?

I can still go to the barber, right?

 

[SkyWriting]

So why is it that somehow we feel that body parts of a person that we don't know can be harvested, changed, and recycled for a purpose that Our Creator never intended??
Something to think about.

You mean for organ transplants?

 

[SkyWriting]

Many including myself had issues with the use of stem cells in the creation of Covid vaccines, due to unethical sourcing. (On the balance of good to those around me, I took the vax, but I can see some Now whatever you end stance on this, shouldn't we as Christians seek to ensure that vaccines are available for use by all peoples.

1) Seek to create ethical stem cell lines that companies can use in place of the current unethical ones.
2) Once created, seek to encourage use by pharma companies. Highlighting that using ethical stem cell line would give them a considerable market advantage, faithful Christians (and other faith groups who see abortion as unethical) would prefer their product.

Does anyone know if such a group exists already? Or a Gofund me type way already exists to support this suggestion?

If we decide to stop using stem cell lines that were created decades ago, then we should also kill off any people that have benefitted from these lines and also eliminate any of their offspring. The idea is to stop any activities based on past procedures. So killing off any children from people who are alive due to stem cell research is the next logical step.

Every day, stem cells save lives -
Tens of thousands of people benefit each year from stem cell transplants (as bone marrow transplants) to treat blood cancers such as leukaemia and lymphoma and ...

 

[Kylie]

This article describes the issues regarding stem cells and the Covid vaccine quite nicely, and it was written by a Catholic. You asked, we answered: Do the COVID-19 vaccines contain aborted fetal cells?

 

[tz620q]

This article describes the issues regarding stem cells and the Covid vaccine quite nicely, and it was written by a Catholic. You asked, we answered: Do the COVID-19 vaccines contain aborted fetal cells?

The article misses the point that Malleeboy was trying to get to. Why use stem cells from an abortion where the baby was killed against its will, when you can use donated fetal stem cells from miscarriages. The current scenario to a Catholic would be similar to someone harvesting your organs because you happened to be a match for transplant without your consent.

 

[Kylie]

The article misses the point that Malleeboy was trying to get to. Why use stem cells from an abortion where the baby was killed against its will, when you can use donated fetal stem cells from miscarriages. The current scenario to a Catholic would be similar to someone harvesting your organs because you happened to be a match for transplant without your consent.

I'd say it was probably ease of access. The stem cell lines that they used have been used in countless different vaccines (as well as other research projects, I'm sure). Since they are easily available, why would the scientists decide to go through the trouble of developing an entirely new line of cells that may not be available in the numbers needed?

 

[SkyWriting]

The article misses the point that Malleeboy was trying to get to. Why use stem cells from an abortion where the baby was killed against its will, when you can use donated fetal stem cells from miscarriages. The current scenario to a Catholic would be similar to someone harvesting your organs because you happened to be a match for transplant without your consent.

We have not been asking stem cells if they'd like to be used for research for decades.
Why would we ask them now? The stem cell lines that we use now are well documented
clones from earlier sources. As long as we treat the stem cells ethically now, they don't shouldn't mind what happened to their ancestors. We could destroy any people who have benefitted in the last decades and tear our clothing in remorse.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Bishop discourages Catholics to take the Covid vaccine

 

[SkyWriting]

Bishop discourages Catholics to take the Covid vaccine

Does the Bishop have children?

 

[pdudgeon]

What about my own body cells? Why should I not be allowed to have them be used?

I can still go to the barber, right?

Shure.
But would you object to the barber collecting the sweepings from the cut, selling them to a lab, and have that lab use the cuttings to formulate an injection of hair cells that could be used to stimulate new hair growth for bald men?
So far not a problem, but what if that lab paid the barber $5 for a bag of hair that he would otherwise have tossed in the garbage.
And then they turn around and create a market for the amazing extract ( of hair clippings) and charge other men a few thousand for the injections.
Only problem is that the "new hair" doesn't last. So if they want to keep on having that new hair, they're going to have to keep on paying for more injections.
And they really like that new hair!
And presto! We have created a brand new market for what used to be considered just garbage to be thrown away.
Except it wasn't garbage.
It never was garbage.

 

[Nithavela]

Shure.
But would you object to the barber collecting the sweepings from the cut, selling them to a lab, and have that lab use the cuttings to formulate an injection of hair cells that could be used to stimulate new hair growth for bald men?
So far not a problem, but what if that lab paid the barber $5 for a bag of hair that he would otherwise have tossed in the garbage.
And then they turn around and create a market for the amazing extract ( of hair clippings) and charge other men a few thousand for the injections.
Only problem is that the "new hair" doesn't last. So if they want to keep on having that new hair, they're going to have to keep on paying for more injections.
And they really like that new hair!
And presto! We have created a brand new market for what used to be considered just garbage to be thrown away.
Except it wasn't garbage.
It never was garbage.

Stem cells can be cloned and multiplied indeffinetely. That's the whole point of them.

And no, I wouldn't object to that usage of my hair. Also, if the barber asked me beforehand, this whole scenario is moot.

 

[Malleeboy]

Just to be clear, I think stem cells can be ethically collected from sources that are not breaking ethical rules.
In my mind, collecting stems cells from umbilical cord blood, miscarriage or still born is no different than blood donation, (whilst there are some (eg JW) who would refuse blood donation most orthodox (in the small "o" sense) Christians), or organ transplant, or skin grafts.


Sykwriting,

I am not advocating to stop using stem cells, just encouraging the use of ethical ones.

Why change, simply because weaker Christian's (like myself) have a issue and our conscience is uneasy (Rom 14). If you do not feel an issue, as stronger Christian, than at least you can seek to show love and help weaker siblings in the Lord. You don't have to assist if you don't wish to but why not seek to help others.

Kylie,

I am not suggesting that scientist do the work. I'm suggesting that we fund the creation of ethical stems and then highlight to scientists that if they use these stems cells there work will be more widely used and will be used in preference to scientist who just not to use ethical stem cells.
If you setting out to help people, then this will help more people. If you are setting out to make money, this will give you a market advantage. ( I know many people who are waiting for Novavax, as it has fair less ethical concerns than the other vaccines.)

Sabertooth,

HEK293 is used in the creation of Astrazeneca and Janseen (sp?), this is a stem cell from a embryonic kidney, whose origins are somewhat murky but probably from an abortion. Stem cells used in this way, are useful, and could be replaced by a more ethical source.

 

[SkyWriting]

Shure.
But would you object to the barber collecting the sweepings from the cut, selling them to a lab, and have that lab use the cuttings to formulate an injection of hair cells that could be used to stimulate new hair growth for bald men? So far not a problem, but what if that lab paid the barber $5 for a bag of hair that he would otherwise have tossed in the garbage.And then they turn around and create a market for the amazing extract ( of hair clippings) and charge other men a few thousand for the injections. Only problem is that the "new hair" doesn't last. So if they want to keep on having that new hair, they're going to have to keep on paying for more injections.And they really like that new hair!And presto! We have created a brand new market for what used to be considered just garbage to be thrown away.Except it wasn't garbage. It never was garbage.

There is no morality problem for anyone in your story.

 

[SkyWriting]

Why change, simply because weaker Christian's (like myself) have a issue and our conscience is uneasy (Rom 14). If you do not feel an issue, as stronger Christian, than at least you can seek to show love and help weaker siblings in the Lord. You don't have to assist if you don't wish to but why not seek to help others.

Just as I have forgiven Jews for killing Jesus, I forgive the people who originally harvested stem cells in the past and I seek no reparations for past behavior. It's a matter of forgiveness, which is always the best solution.

 

[Tanj]

HEK293 is used in the creation of Astrazeneca and Janseen (sp?), this is a stem cell from a embryonic kidney,

No, it isn't. It's an embryonic kidney cell line. It's no where near a stem cell.

whose origins are somewhat murky but probably from an abortion. Stem cells used in this way, are useful, and could be replaced by a more ethical source.

It's not murky, it's specifically documented and well known. And still not stem cells.

The amount of complete wrong in this thread is frightening. Not for being wrong, but for people who think their wrong is so right it should be spread to the world.

 

[tz620q]

I'd say it was probably ease of access. The stem cell lines that they used have been used in countless different vaccines (as well as other research projects, I'm sure). Since they are easily available, why would the scientists decide to go through the trouble of developing an entirely new line of cells that may not be available in the numbers needed?

Noone here is against stem cell usage, though for all of the money put into finding therapeutic usage of embryonic stem cells, it has been a big bust. While adult stem cells have been used for over 50 years now and have treated many diseases. This thread is about the usage of stem cell lines in testing new drugs and in production of new vaccines. So it seems your view is that however these cells were collected, they have done far more good than the initial harm to the fetus that procured them. But to a Catholic, that initial harm was murder and to us, profiting from that murder is not ethical or moral. So you don't have to agree with my argument; but please try to see how easy it would be to cleanse these cell lines and avoid our ethical dilemma. I would pose one hypothetical here. Our current Pope weighed the good of the vaccine against the bad of using these cell lines for testing (in the case of Moderna and Pfizer) and came out with the opinion that Catholics could take the vaccine. What if he had come down on the other side of that and said no? Millions of Catholics might have rejected the vaccine and put themselves at risk of death simply because noone wants to take the time to grow ethically sourced stem cell lines.