Born Again2004
Well-Known Member
Why should I...I am a "Born Again" Christian with Jesus inside me and I am already saved?
Aren't you?
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Why should I...I am a "Born Again" Christian with Jesus inside me and I am already saved?Do you believe you will be saved if you start to persistently disobey the teachings of Jesus without repenting?
Why should I...I am a "Born Again" Christian with Jesus inside me and I am already saved?
Aren't you?
I did understand that you were referring to believers, but the comparison is still valid; that one can be presented with truth and still deny it. Whether the saving gospel message, or doctrines taught in the Scriptures.Maybe we agree to this but, much is lost in translation. It appears to me that you are comparing Apples to Oranges. I am talking about believers..... you are talking about the bulk of the Pharisees and Sadducees of the day which where controlled by Satan and where non-believers. They were supposed to be experts in the Torah and should have know who Jesus was...but they denied scriptures as well!
Sure, you have a right to your opinion and the verses that you think supports your forever notion that before you die or perhaps changed in the blink of an eye, you have to hold on or perform in some righteous way...again and again...to prevent a "falling away"! I also have the right to mine, in which, I have my own scriptures, I consider myself more of a "Heart Christian" than a "Head Christian", that I somehow believe inside that God is greater and makes no mistakes. He also told Paul that his grace was sufficient and refused to remove the thorn from his side''....His grace is perfect, sufficient and it is his work through us; not our work. If it were a matter of our continued work and falling away or not, we all would fall away...but God did, what only he could do to defeat Satan and death, he devised a perfect plan and took us completely out of the equation!
To be clear, what He said that you've quoted wasn't in reference to either getting saved or maintaining one's salvation.You shouldn't, but nothing will stop you from sinning if that is what you desire and you will it to happen.
You have the choice.
Jesus said we must pick up our cross daily and follow him.
Not that I don't sin but I won't willfully sin because I have no desire to willfully sin.You shouldn't, but nothing will stop you from sinning if that is what you desire and you will it to happen.
You have the choice.
Jesus said we must pick up our cross daily and follow him.
How in God's creation can I believe in blessed assurance for what God / Jesus has done for me and you call it not free in Christ. But, you can fall away to the Devil and YOU are free in Christ....Wow!!!...that is a new twist I have never heard before!Sadly that sounds like a very sectarian / human point of view, not one subscribed to within biblical texts. If you insist on sticking to your Dogma despite repeated evidence to the contrary then that just makes you human and sadly a human who is inculcated, not Free in Christ.
You still didn't get my point: being presented with the truth, and knowing the Torah by heart and the Pharisee still did not believe is the exact opposite of the Apostles and no way the same!I did understand that you were referring to believers, but the comparison is still valid; that one can be presented with truth and still deny it. Whether the saving gospel message, or doctrines taught in the Scriptures.
And I can assure everyone else reading this that you are wrong.I assure you that they are the same thing.
I have no problem understanding what the word of God says, my problem is those who assert it says what it doesn't. I have no problem with God being true to his word, but I do have a problem with people who impose a certain attribute or position on God that is not something he himself has said is true.The problem is understand what God said. What He said means security for the believer, regardless of circumstances.
OKPlease address just point 5 of the OP; the passage on 1 Thess 5, which I exegeted. And point out from each verse where my exegesis is wrong.
So you're changing your tune now? You have faith and assurance in God and don't require eternal security? Sorry, I must have missed that somewhere along the way here.How in God's creation can I believe in blessed assurance for what God / Jesus has done for me and you call it not free in Christ. But, you can fall away to the Devil and YOU are free in Christ....Wow!!!...that is a new twist I have never heard before!
That would be avoidance and deflection with a capital A and D.Why should I...I am a "Born Again" Christian with Jesus inside me and I am already saved?
Aren't you?
Yes, you sure did.....NO, because I have faith in God/Jesus I have assurance and eternal security because of his work...so, unless I missed something , I believe in Grace alone, you, on the other hand, believe in your own works to secure your salvation to the end!So you're changing your tune now? You have faith and assurance in God and don't require eternal security? Sorry, I must have missed that somewhere along the way here.
Huh?....Me saying "I am a "Born Again" Christian with Jesus inside me and I am already saved" is avoidance and deflection. Jesus said he was the way and the truth and he said he would never lose me......what Jesus do you believe in?That would be avoidance and deflection with a capital A and D.
Well now you're bringing in another petal of your T.U.L.I.P. Doctrine which has nothing to do with this issue. I do wish you'd stay on topic and be clear about what you're actually saying. You obviously don't except the assurance that Jesus gives you if you require that he also give you some kind of guarantee against your own apostasy.Yes, you sure did.....NO, because I have faith in God/Jesus I have assurance and eternal security because of his work...so, unless I missed something , I believe in Grace alone, you, on the other hand, believe in your own works to secure your salvation to the end!
You know exactly what I was referring to so please stop with these games. You were asked a specific question and you deflected and did not answer it.Huh?....Me saying "I am a "Born Again" Christian with Jesus inside me and I am already saved" is avoidance and deflection. Jesus said he was the way and the truth and he said he would never lose me......what Jesus do you believe in?
Not that I don't sin but I won't willfully sin because I have no desire to willfully sin.
That is the whole point...I choose not to!
Let me ask you again....do you have a desire to willfully sin?....Will you ever chose to?
Love the Tulip analogy but head knowledge won't get it done. Now your getting it....his assurance to me would be a guarantee against apostasy.....in fact, unlike you, the thought of apostasy never enters my mind until someone, as yourself, brings it up! Also, that is absurd that you intimate that humble ole me would require anything of God!...He is God...He gives freely... and I receive and not in my wildest moment would I require him anything, that is crazy!You obviously don't except the assurance that Jesus gives you if you require that he also give you some kind of guarantee against your own apostasy.
I never play games! Oh, please ask again! Have no idea what you are referring to!You know exactly what I was referring to so please stop with these games. You were asked a specific question and you deflected and did not answer it.
You can equivocate until the cows come home but assurance does not mean guarantee or security. Sadly it will be the ones and always has been the ones who think they're not susceptible to apostasy that fall into it. Being aware of the pitfalls in our walk is exactly what the New Testament is all about and why it speaks so heavily against all those issues. There is no reason to warn us against potential problems when they aren't problems so the fact that you ignore the warnings and stick to your ignorance is bliss routine only shows why so many people like you fall into apostasy.Love the Tulip analogy but head knowledge won't get it done. Now your getting it....his assurance to me would be a guarantee against apostasy.....in fact, unlike you, the thought of apostasy never enters my mind until someone, as yourself, brings it up!
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