Eternal Security

Brightfame52 said:

Who is responsible or the Sheep ?

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Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (See Philippians 2:12).
Fight the good fight and lay hold on eternal life (See 1 Timothy 6:12).
So you have to look at all of the Bible and not just those parts you want to see from a Calvinistic perspective or framework.

Brightfame52 said:

Who is responsible or the Sheep ?

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So is this your experience involving Calvinism?


Is that what you experience? If not... then YOU must choose to follow the Lord and God is not going to do it for you. Choose this day in whom you will serve is what the Bible says. It does not say God will choose you this day and you have no choice but to serve Him because He forces you to follow Him.

Brightfame52 said:

Christs Sheep. Now whose responsible for the Sheep ?

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we are by acting on cooperation with God.

Bible Highlighter said:

So is this your experience involving Calvinism?

Fred:
“Oh man... I could not believe what I did the other day.”

Bob:
“What Fred? What happened?”

Fred:
“Well, like I kind of blacked out and God took control of my will to preach the gospel and to help some poor people yesterday.”

Rick:
“Yeah, Fred. I also kind of like felt mind wiped and I started to just preach out of the blue and I had no real control. I had no control. I was being forced by God.”

Everyone:
“Oh yeah! That's awesome!”​

Is that what you experience? If not... then YOU must choose to follow the Lord and God is not going to do it for you. Choose this day in whom you will serve is what the Bible says. It does not say God will choose you this day and you have no choice but to serve Him because He forces you to follow Him.

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You remind me a lot of a Deist, who believes that God created the world, but doesn't intervene in what happens. That we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but then He abandons us to fend for ourselves.

BNR32FAN said:

But the question is did verse 3 eliminate that truth or was that truth added into it? If the added content wasn’t present in the earlier manuscripts then it makes more sense to say that these were added later rather than to say that they were omitted previously because if they were omitted previously then there would be no evidence of their omission to support adding them later. We see the same thing in The Lord’s Prayer. “For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever and ever” is not included in the earlier manuscripts. It is quite disturbing that some saw fit to either add to or remove words from the original manuscripts but it just makes more sense to go with the older texts rather than the newer ones that appear to have added statements in them since we can’t see any evidence as to why these statements were added by looking at the older texts. I believe these were slight modifications in order to give more or better understanding to the messages of the original authors but if the original authors were inspired by God to write what they did then I guarantee what they wrote is sufficient without these added commentaries and opinions.

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You have the wrong perspective, worldview, or glasses on, brother. If you were to put on the glasses that tells us we are in a spiritual battle and Satan is set on deceiving us, the problem in Modern Translations will become more transparent to you. I mean, stop and think for a moment. If Satan hates God's Word (and I believe he does), then he is going to not hold back in pulling out all the stops in trying to corrupt His Word and to make people believe something that is subtly wrong or false. What does Satan have to gain if he can convince a person to be confused in not believing the Trinity? For again, as I said before, if you were stranded on an island and you knew nothing of Christianity, you would not really know that God is three and yet one (i.e. the Trinity) by reading a Modern Translation. So the devil wins by your having the wrong translation in this example. For Anti-Trinitarians love to say that no verse in the Bible teaches the Trinity. Yet, I have a sword and I believe it has power to demolish strongholds in people's minds. It is the Word of God. But if one has a butter knife and they have no verse that teaches the Trinity like 1 John 5:7, they are going to be running like a dog with their tail tucked behind their legs. I can at least stand upon 1 John 5:7 by faith and declare it boldly to them.

Think about what God wanted to say through inspired Scripture, and how the devil seeks to pervert what His Word says. What does the devil have to gain in 1 John 4:3 in Modern Translations? I am still confessing Jesus according to the King James translation on 1 John 4:3. Remember, the devil seeks to deceive and he does so by trying to be like the Most High. If he can get a person to think they are not the spirit of antichrist by not confessing Jesus came in the flesh, the devil wins. 1 John 4:2 does say (in Modern Bibles) that a person is of God if they confess Jesus came in the flesh, but this is not the case in a negative sense. If they do not confess Jesus is come in the flesh is the test that Modern Translations fail big time to address. The devil wins if we deny the Incarnation. In Modern Bibles: Nothing is properly said in 1 John 4:3 about denying the Incarnation. The truth is if a person denies that Jesus came in the flesh, they are the spirit of antichrist. That's the true test because the devil does not want God's people to boldly declare the Incarnation. The devil wants people to deny the Incarnation. So a subtle change in God's Word will give him the push that he needs to deceive. It's a subtle twist on the truth, but that is because the serpent is said to be subtle in the Garden.

To all:

Some think I believe that God does nothing in our lives. This is simply not true. Here is my official statement on the topic of salvation from another thread (that shows that salvation is cooperative and not just one sided).

#1. God's Grace Through Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior
(Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus as ones Savior is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Being saved by God's grace is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Being saved by God's grace will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For verses on being saved by God's grace, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#2. Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life
(The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

Brightfame52 said:

Us knowing who they are has nothing to do with what Jesus said in Jn 10:28

“And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

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Well, of course it does. I hardly think that everyone who heard those words down through the centuries and applied them to themselves was or is necessarily saved.

And aside from that, there are way too many contingencies as well aimed at believers to balance out overconfidence: warnings and admonitions and encouragements about remaining in Christ striving, persevering, being vigilant etc

Bible Highlighter said:

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (See Philippians 2:12).
Fight the good fight and lay hold on eternal life (See 1 Timothy 6:12).
So you have to look at all of the Bible and not just those parts you want to see from a Calvinistic perspective or framework.

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So the Shepherd in your opinion isnt responsible for His Sheep ?

BNR32FAN said:

we are by acting on cooperation with God.

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Who is responsible for the Sheep ?

fhansen said:

Well, of course it does. I hardly think that everyone who heard those words down through the centuries and applied them to themselves was or is necessarily saved.

And aside from that, there are way too many contingencies as well aimed at believers to balance out overconfidence: warnings and admonitions and encouragements about remaining in Christ striving, persevering, being vigilant etc

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Christ said they shall never perish ! Can you take Him at His Word ?

Brightfame52 said:

Christ said they shall never perish ! Can you take Him at His Word ?

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Yes, those who hear and follow will never perish.

Brightfame52 said:

So the Shepherd in your opinion isnt responsible for His Sheep ?

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Christ will help them but ultimately it’s up to the individual.

“And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’ ””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:6-9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

BNR32FAN said:

Yes, those who hear and follow will never perish.

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If you take God at His word, they shall never perish !

BNR32FAN said:

Christ will help them but ultimately it’s up to the individual.

“And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’ ””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:6-9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

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I see you dont understand the responsibility of a Shepherd, the Shepherd is responsible for the Sheep. Now if anything happens to the sheep under the care of its Shepherd, the Shephers is to blame !

Brightfame52 said:

Christ said they shall never perish ! Can you take Him at His Word ?

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Yes, they, the elect, will persevere and be saved. They will remain in Him. That's all we know for sure-that the elect are, um, the elect.

The idea that we can know for ourselves with some kind of perfect certainty is anti-gospel and against the continuous teachings of the ancient churches, both east and west: nonsense IOW.

Eternal Security can easily be disproved by pointing out the surrounding context of a verse that supposedly proves it. For there hasn't been a verse (that supposedly proves Eternal Security) that I was not able to refute using Scripture.

In fact, I am not sure how a person can read the Bible and ignore all the verses that refute the unbiblical teaching of Eternal Security. For when a person reads their Bible they will see a refutation of Eternal Security in the majority of the New Testament (and in some cases, depending on the book, they will see a refutation of Eternal Security on almost every page). Therefore, I beg everyone here (who believes in Eternal Security and who has an open heart to receive the seed of God's Word into their heart) to re-examine what they believe and look at the following verses by way of prayer. For if I am wrong, I have nothing to lose (because I do not believe in Works ALONE Salvationism; I believe in Relationship-ism with God that naturally yields the fruit of God flowing through in my life). But if the Eternal Security Proponent is wrong, they have everything to lose. Anyways, here is a...

Long List of Verses Refuting Eternal Security
or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):

• Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.
  

• Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.
  

• Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.
  

• Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.
  

• Matthew 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 - Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.
  

• Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.
  

• Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.
  

• Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.
  

• Mark 13:13 - But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally (Also see Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:22-23, 1 Timothy 4:16, Hebrews 10:35-39, Revelation 2:10)
  

• Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).
  

• Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?
  

• Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.
  

• John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).
  

• John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.
  

• John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.
  

• John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?
  

• Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.
  

• Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.
  

• Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.
  

• Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.
  

• Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.
  

• Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.
  

• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.
  

• 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.
  

• 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.
  

• 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.
  

• Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by the Law of Moses (or Law Alone-ism), … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.
  

• Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.
  

• Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
  

• Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.
  

• Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.
  

• Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.
  

• Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
  
  
• … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.
  

• Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.
  

• Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.
  

• Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.
  

• 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.
  

• 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.
  

• 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.
  

• 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).
  

• 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.
  

• Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.
  

• Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?
  

• Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
  

• Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.
  

• Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).
  

• Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).
  

• Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.
  

• Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.
  

• Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.
  

• Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.
  

• Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.
  

• Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (without which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.
  

• Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.
  

• James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.
  

• 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.
  

• 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.
  

• 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.
  

• 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.
  

• 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
  

• 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.
  

• 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.
  

• 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.
  

• Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality
  

• Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.
  

• Revelation 2:10 - Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life (Also see Mark 13:13 above).
  

• Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).
  

• Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.
  

• Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.
  

• Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
  

• Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.
  

• Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.
  

• Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.
  

• Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.
  

Biblewriter said:

There are many sincere Christians, who deeply love the Lord Jesus Christ, but do not understand this critical concept. And many of these would be very offended at the suggestion that this is a fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith. But regardless of the opinions of anyone, this is indeed taught in the scriptures, and not only taught, but insisted upon as a basic and fundamental principle.

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True, we cannot earn our salvation, and nothing we do can pay for our sins. Lord Jesus made the ransom payment for all people, so that whosoever believes (continuous believing) is ransomed, and possesses eternal life.

Faith, always includes repentance, and is represented in baptism (dying to old Master of sin) and rising to follow our rightful Master and Lord, Jesus).

Whosoever believes (continuous) has eternal life (John 3:16).

Whosoever believes ( continuous) has passed from death to life.

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Whosoever believes (demonstrated by following Lord Jesus) walks in the light of life, and is cleansed from all sins.

John 8:12 (WEB) 12 Again, therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. [Isaiah 60:1] He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.”

1 John 1:6-7 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and don’t tell the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

Therefore, as we remain in the faith (continuous believing), demonstrated by following Lord Jesus, we have the light of life, and the blood of Lord Jesus cleanses us from all sins - we have passed from death to life.

For those who do not remain in the faith, following Lord Jesus, these are no longer walking in the light of life, their sins are no longer forgiven, and they will be judged.

Ephesians 4:5-7 (WEB)
5 Know this for sure, that no sexually immoral person, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words. For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. 8 For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as children of light, 9 for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 (WEB) 3 For this is the will of God: your sanctification, that you abstain from sexual immorality, 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in sanctification and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles who do not know God, 6 that no one should take advantage of and wrong a brother or sister in this matter; because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as also we forewarned you and testified. 7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification. 8 Therefore he who rejects this doesn’t reject man, but God, who has also given his Holy Spirit to you.

1 Timothy 4:1 (WEB) 1 But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons

1 Timothy 6:10-12 (WEB)
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some have been led astray from the faith in their greed, and have pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But you, man of God, flee these things, and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance, and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you confessed the good confession in the sight of many witnesses.

1 Timothy 6:18-19 (WEB)
18 that they do good, that they be rich in good works, that they be ready to distribute, willing to share; 19 laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold of eternal life.

1 Timothy 6:20-21 (WEB) 20 Timothy, guard that which is committed to you, turning away from the empty chatter and oppositions of what is falsely called knowledge, 21 which some profess, and thus have wandered from the faith.

Hebrews 12:25 (WEB) See that you (the Christians for whom the letter was written) do not refuse him who speaks. For if they (those OT Israelites) did not escape when they refused him who warned on the earth, how much more will we (the Christians for whom the letter was written) not escape who turn away from him who warns from heaven

Hebrews 10:35-38 (WEB)
35 Therefore do not throw away your boldness, which has a great reward. 36 For you need endurance so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise

Brightfame52 said:

I see you dont understand the responsibility of a Shepherd, the Shepherd is responsible for the Sheep. Now if anything happens to the sheep under the care of its Shepherd, the Shephers is to blame !

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Your taking the analogy beyond it’s intended application. Obviously each person has the ability to choose to remain in Christ or to turn away from Him according to John 15:1-7 and 2 Timothy 2:11-13.

Bible Highlighter said:

Eternal Security can easily be disproved by pointing out the surrounding context of a verse that supposedly proves it. For there hasn't been a verse (that supposedly proves Eternal Security) that I was not able to refute using Scripture.

In fact, I am not sure how a person can read the Bible and ignore all the verses that refute the unbiblical teaching of Eternal Security. For when a person reads their Bible they will see a refutation of Eternal Security in the majority of the New Testament (and in some cases, depending on the book, they will see a refutation of Eternal Security on almost every page). Therefore, I beg everyone here (who believes in Eternal Security and who has an open heart to receive the seed of God's Word into their heart) to re-examine what they believe and look at the following verses by way of prayer. For if I am wrong, I have nothing to lose (because I do not believe in Works ALONE Salvationism; I believe in Relationship-ism with God that naturally yields the fruit of God flowing through in my life). But if the Eternal Security Proponent is wrong, they have everything to lose. Anyways, here is a...

Long List of Verses Refuting Eternal Security
or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):

• Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

• Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.

• Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.

• Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.

• Matthew 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 - Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.

• Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.

• Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.

• Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.

• Mark 13:13 - But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally (Also see Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:22-23, 1 Timothy 4:16, Hebrews 10:35-39, Revelation 2:10)

• Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).

• Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?

• Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.

• John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).

• John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.

• John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.

• John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?

• Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.

• Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.

• Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.

• Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.

• Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.

• Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.

• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.

• 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

• 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.

• Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by the Law of Moses (or Law Alone-ism), … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

• Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

• Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

• Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.

• Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.

• Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
  
  
• … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

• Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.

• Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

• Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.

• 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

• 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

• 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

• 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

• 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.

• Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.

• Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?

• Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

• Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.

• Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).

• Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).

• Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.

• Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.

• Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.

• Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

• Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.

• Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (without which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.

• Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.

• James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.

• 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.

• 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.

• 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

• 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.

• 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

• 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.

• 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.

• 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.

• Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality

• Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.

• Revelation 2:10 - Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life (Also see Mark 13:13 above).

• Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).

• Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.

• Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

• Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

• Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.

• Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.

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You quoted John 15:6 but really every verse from John 15:2-7 implies that even Jesus’ faithful 11 apostles had the ability to turn away from Him.

Another one that is really powerful is 2 Timothy 2:12 since this is a personal letter from Paul to Timothy. If OSAS was true then Paul’s statement here would be an impossibility.

The reason I like these two examples the best is because these only refer to people whom we know without a doubt were true believers. No one can say that these could’ve been false professors or tares among the wheat.

Brightfame52 said:

If you take God at His word, they shall never perish !

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Yes, those who hear and follow, not those who heard and followed. Only the ones who abide in Him and endure to the end will never perish. These are His sheep, anyone who does not abide in Him is not His sheep.