Eternal Security

[Duvduv]

I have seen many attempts to explain how eternal security in the atonement of Jesus is no license to sin or not to repent of one's misdeeds, however the paradox remains. For if Jesus paid the penalty, why should a person worry about repenting, confessing about sinning since either way he is admitted to heaven?. In addition, how can one even ever know if ones faith is satisfactory to merit the atonement of Jesus since there is no empirical way of confirming it objectively?

 

[faroukfarouk]

I have seen many attempts to explain how eternal security in the atonement of Jesus is no license to sin or not to repent of one's misdeeds, however the paradox remains. For if Jesus paid the penalty, why should a person worry about repenting, confessing about sinning since either way he is admitted to heaven?. In addition, how can one even ever know if ones faith is satisfactory to merit the atonement of Jesus since there is no empirical way of confirming it objectively?

God sees if the person is truly repentant.

 

[A_Thinker]

... if Jesus paid the penalty, why should a person worry about repenting, confessing about sinning since either way he is admitted to heaven?.

Why did David confess, and repent of his sin ?

Because confession, and repentance over sinning, is the way to a more Godly life.

It's relationship oriented ("You shall love the Lord thy God ... ").

Confession and repentance of acts against the relationship help the relationship to stay healthy and to grow. It helps those in relationship to grow CLOSER to one another.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I have seen many attempts to explain how eternal security in the atonement of Jesus is no license to sin or not to repent of one's misdeeds, however the paradox remains. For if Jesus paid the penalty, why should a person worry about repenting, confessing about sinning since either way he is admitted to heaven?. In addition, how can one even ever know if ones faith is satisfactory to merit the atonement of Jesus since there is no empirical way of confirming it objectively?

First. Asking why if we are eternally secure should we repent shows a lack of obedience to Christ.

I’m not speaking directly to you, but overall an answer to the eternal security question.

If we believe that God only gives us good things and have experienced this in our walk, then we know that there is a spiritual reason for repentance in OUR best interest. I think some view God as a tyrant that wants to impose rules on us and make our lives miserable in that we cannot have ‘fun’ and sin.

But to tell you the truth, I have found the opposite. I really do not miss the sin and I find much greater advantage in the peace and trusting that God has a plan and His will for us is good to be the much better side of that equation.

If you really study repentance in the Bible you will find a few things.

First, that John the Baptist who was sent as a forerunner to Christ and forgiveness of sin preached repentance.

I think that’s important because no one who doesn’t think they sin, needs a Savior.

Also the order of John coming before or earlier is that we must recognize our deep spiritual problem of sin in the light of God’s Holiness. God cannot be Holy and reside with sin. Polar opposites. So we are in a pickle, separated from God. This stinks. We need to realize how bad that situation is.

The second thing about a study about repentance is that it also means to ‘turn away from’ or make the other choice. So besides repenting for the sin itself it can and often is a choice also to turn away from that behavior and to next time make the better choice. It is part of a change of heart, followed by a change of mind that hopefully results in a future change of action or doing it differently.

I think repentance also serves as a reminder just how bad we really are. Sin, repent, then doing the sin again, repent again. Wash, rinse, repeat. Wash, rinse, repeat.

It makes me grateful for God’s promises about repentance and that He cleanses my soul and is just to ALWAYS forgive me.

Those are my thoughts off the top of my head to your question.

In essence, I think repentance is to OuR spiritual advantage. I don’t think God gets His kicks out of it or does it for Himself, per se

 

[Albion]

I have seen many attempts to explain how eternal security in the atonement of Jesus is no license to sin or not to repent of one's misdeeds, however the paradox remains. For if Jesus paid the penalty, why should a person worry about repenting, confessing about sinning since either way he is admitted to heaven?. In addition, how can one even ever know if ones faith is satisfactory to merit the atonement of Jesus since there is no empirical way of confirming it objectively?

It’s as simple as this...

The reason there is eternal security is because of faith, but it is impossible to have saving faith without it changing a person. And if the person is truly changed, the scenario you describe is also impossible.

It is like saying that Mr. X has become a vegan for all the good reasons, but he still eats burgers and steak almost every day. What would we say about that? Of course we would point out that he has not actually become a vegan, regardless of his claims and even his aspirations.

 

[Halbhh]

I have seen many attempts to explain how eternal security in the atonement of Jesus is no license to sin or not to repent of one's misdeeds, however the paradox remains. For if Jesus paid the penalty, why should a person worry about repenting, confessing about sinning since either way he is admitted to heaven?. In addition, how can one even ever know if ones faith is satisfactory to merit the atonement of Jesus since there is no empirical way of confirming it objectively?

Because we are told to confess sins.

The empirical way to know we are His is the way that Christ said, and that also John and Paul echoed clearly. (And hopefully usually your pastor once in a while! If not that's a real concern because this is so definite in Christ's words to us. )

Ask if need passages. Also, some good answers above.

 

[Duvduv]

I have read all the replies, but the bottom line is simple: regardless of one's behavior one still goes to heaven.
And yet how can a person even have eternal security since there is no way in this world of knowing ehrthwr or not the faith was sufficient to merit salvation and heaven??

 

[Katiedash]

There is nothing we can do to get ourselves into heaven. We will never have enough faith, we will never be good enough to get through the Pearly Gates of Heaven. It is all Jesus, His sacrifice on the cross.
With that said, repentance and whether it is true repentance or not is between Jesus and the person. If you do not feel like your salvation is secure. Maybe need to pray, search the Bible, have a deep discussion with God about it.
For me to find strength in my life here on earth it is my relationship with the Lord, and the strength He blesses me with when I accepted Him as my Lord.

 

[faroukfarouk]

There is nothing we can do to get ourselves into heaven. We will never have enough faith, we will never be good enough to get through the Pearly Gates of Heaven. It is all Jesus, His sacrifice on the cross.
With that said, repentance and whether it is true repentance or not is between Jesus and the person. If you do not feel like your salvation is secure. Maybe need to pray, search the Bible, have a deep discussion with God about it.
For me to find strength in my life here on earth it is my relationship with the Lord, and the strength He blesses me with when I accepted Him as my Lord.

Romans 8.38-39

 

[ToBeLoved]

I have read all the replies, but the bottom line is simple: regardless of one's behavior one still goes to heaven.
And yet how can a person even have eternal security since there is no way in this world of knowing ehrthwr or not the faith was sufficient to merit salvation and heaven??

You don’t understand eternal security.

Eternal security is not based upon a person’s knowing, but instead based upon what God does.

The Holy Spirit is the seal of the New Covenant. A Covenant is a binding contract between man and God, that God designed. God is legally bound by His Covenant that He has made with us and we are given the indwelling Holy Spirit as part of our inheritance as adopted children of God. We are literally made part of God’s family and are co-heirs with Christ to the Father as well as individual heirs of Christ.

Eternal security, once you understand the nuances of the New Covenant and what we are given, is that as long as we have the Holy Spirit, we are God’s.

In theory, because God cannot break His Covenant with us, the Holy Spirit would have to leave the individual and no longer reside in them because the Covenant is sealed in the Holy Spirit.

I will try to add verses to this on my computer as I am on my phone now and to copy and paste Bible verses is too difficult.

UPDATE: Got on my pc and here are some verses.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
21 Now it is God who establishes both us and you in Christ. He anointed us, 22 placed His seal on us, and put His Spirit in our hearts as a pledge of what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5
5 And God has prepared us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a pledge of what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13-14
13 And in Him you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, having heard and believed the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. 14 The Spirit is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:30
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

John 6:27
27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Timothy 2:19
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him

 

[Duvduv]

But ultimately a person gets into heaven whether he is a saint or a mass murderer as long as he testifies that he believes in Jesus.... anything else presents a theological contradiction.

 

[ToBeLoved]

But ultimately a person gets into heaven whether he is a saint or a mass murderer as long as he testifies that he believes in Jesus.... anything else presents a theological contradiction.

So I spent 15 minutes writing the previous post you never read?

How could you miss that either a person HAS the Holy Spirit (saved BY GOD) or does not (not saved by God)?

How does that equal your saying that a person only testifies that they believe?

Maybe you don't want to have a serious discussion here. If you want to just push through your unBiblical opinion, let me know. I have better things to do if you just post to talk.

 

[Duvduv]

I am sorry, I don't see how your citations resolve the contradiction. If salvation provides a guarantee of heaven, then the rest is irrelevant. Even the Arminian view doesn't resolve it because no one can empirically know whether he is still under grace or not..

 

[A_Thinker]

I am sorry, I don't see how your citations resolve the contradiction. If salvation provides a guarantee of heaven, then the rest is irrelevant. Even the Arminian view doesn't resolve it because no one can empirically know whether he is still under grace or not..

Did you miss this one ...

Romans 8:16-17

16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

 

[Duvduv]

No, I didn't miss that one either. The problem remains.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I am sorry, I don't see how your citations resolve the contradiction. If salvation provides a guarantee of heaven, then the rest is irrelevant. Even the Arminian view doesn't resolve it because no one can empirically know whether he is still under grace or not..

Because salvation is not determined by what the person believes.

Salvation is determined by God, giving the person the indwelling Holy Spirit. Eternal security is not based upon a person's belief that they have God, but God Himself giving all who He has adopted as son's and daughters the Holy Spirit as a seal of the covenant that God makes with each of us.

It is God, placing His seal on us.

So if you remove the person from the thought process you see that it is from God's perspective.

The Holy Spirit determines salvation and so each person must examine themselves to be sure that they have been sealed in the New Covenant by God.

The Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are God's. Read the verses I posted again.

 

[A_Thinker]

I am sorry, I don't see how your citations resolve the contradiction. If salvation provides a guarantee of heaven, then the rest is irrelevant. Even the Arminian view doesn't resolve it because no one can empirically know whether he is still under grace or not..

Also, if you confess Jesus Christ as Saviour, and see the fruit of the Spirit in your life (i.e. more love, joy, peace, etc.), you can have a reasonable assurance of your salvation ...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

But ultimately a person gets into heaven whether he is a saint or a mass murderer as long as he testifies that he believes in Jesus.... anything else presents a theological contradiction.

....no, that's not quite right. One can only get into heaven by repenting of one's sins--murder being one of those sins--and responding in faith to Jesus as Messiah, Lord, and Savior. So, a murderer can't just "believe." As James states in the New Testament, "even the demons believe..." Well, one has to have something better than the cognitive belief of a demon to make it before the face of the Lord Almighty.

 

[Halbhh]

I am sorry, I don't see how your citations resolve the contradiction. If salvation provides a guarantee of heaven, then the rest is irrelevant. Even the Arminian view doesn't resolve it because no one can empirically know whether he is still under grace or not..

Believing in Christ Jesus, you will want to hear what He said to you.

Matthew 1 NIV (in Matthew His first recorded words are in chapter 3)

His words help us so much, and because we want to follow Him, we listen from our faith.

The wonderful thing we discover is that even after we have read through a gospel one or more times, that each time we read again, we are transformed again. His Word really is "living" (as we are told in Hebrews ch 4) you find out, as you listen.

 

[Sketcher]

In addition, how can one even ever know if ones faith is satisfactory to merit the atonement of Jesus since there is no empirical way of confirming it objectively?

The atonement of Jesus is unmerited, first of all.

I have seen many attempts to explain how eternal security in the atonement of Jesus is no license to sin or not to repent of one's misdeeds, however the paradox remains. For if Jesus paid the penalty, why should a person worry about repenting, confessing about sinning since either way he is admitted to heaven?

When we become Christians, the atonement of Jesus is applied to our sins, and we are born again (John 3:1-21, Ephesians 2:1-10). When we are born again, we have a new nature and a new purpose, to live for Christ (Ephesians 2:10, John 14:23-24). He took the penalty we deserved - how can we not honor him and love him for that? To love him is to obey him.