Eternal Security

[JimfromOhio]

Had I been asked this 2 days ago I would have said OSNAS. Without a doubt in my mind. I've never armenist (sp?), but rather somewhere between calvinist and armenian. I consider both to be contradictory to the bible and rather was somewhere down the middle.

Yesterday however I read something by a staunch calvinist. Whenver this has come up before, I've never seen anything that made me consider OSAS to be true. He gave pretty good back up for it. Dozens upon dozens of verses. I'm in the middle of exam week atm for uni so I can't look into it right now, but when exams are done on Wednesday I plan on going through what he said.

Right now, I still accept OSNAS to the greater extent but until I look at it again I will say "I don't know".

I have been studying about salvation being taught by various denominations. I did some researching and found there are basically 3 kinds of salvation that are being taught in the Christian world.

Free Grace Theology
This doctrine states believers can fall into sins for a prolonged period of time and that it is possible for true believers to fall away without losing salvation. This is predominantly a dispensationalist doctrine. Those who hold to this view state that salvation is always in the aorist tense, so that once a person is converted he/she cannot be unconverted regardless of the circumstances. I have heard that theologians who hold to this view are Charles Stanley, Zane Hodges, Charles Ryrie, Erwin Lutzer, Robert Thieme, Michael Cocoris, John Hart, Chuck Swindoll, Earl Radmacher, and all free grace believers.

Calvinism (Perseverance of the Saints) or (Lordship Salvation)
This doctrine states that those who are elected unto salvation will persevere till the end. Holiness and faithfullness will be a general mark for the believer and that true believers will never backslide or fall away from the faith. Those who hold to this position acknowledge that temporary sins will come into a believer's life, but holiness and righteousness will be the consistent lifestyle for the believer. This view denies the view that Christians can lose their salvation. This view is predominant in many Covenant based denominations like presbyterian and reformed baptist. I have heard that this view is held by theologians like John MacArthur (baptist/non-denominational), R. C. Sproul (presbyterian), J. I. Packer (presbyterian), John Gerstner, J. M. Boice (presbyterian), Kenneth Gentry, and James Kennedy (presbyterian).

Arminianism
This doctrine declares that you can lose your salvation. It teaches that you obtain salvation through faith in Christ, but then you must maintain your salvation status or lose it. There's some variation in the Arminian community as to whether one loses salvation by sinning (in which case to maintain your salvation status, you would be required to maintain a certain outward performance or behavior or you lose it by simply not believing anymore, or a combination of these. Aminianism tends to be dominant in those churches that are derived from a Wesleyan tradition such churches as Methodist and Pentecostal (including Assembly of God).

I hope I got this right. Let me know if I didn't.

 

[Diane_Windsor]

Just found the exact same thread, but it's a closed poll.

 

[hindsey]

Yes I do believe in OSAS. The question then becomes "How do you know that you are saved?"

By a changed life. One of the greatest difficulties I went through early on was "How do I know". It was rather amusing really. Everyone around me could see it and feel it...But I was so blinded by sorrow and joy I could not.

There, I cannot stress this enough, IS a definate danger to the "Just say this prayer" thing. I was a victim of it. Intellectual understanding is not the same as belief...however intellectual understanding is needed in order to believe imoo. You cannot separate the two.

Amen

 

[hindsey]

Once a person is born-again, they are made a part of the family of God. As has been said throughout this thread though, how do you know you're born again.

 

[White Horse]

Heb 7:25 whence also he is able to save to the very end, those coming through him unto God--ever living to make intercession for them.

Eph 1:13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth--the good news of your salvation--in whom also having believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise,

Jud 1:24 And to Him who is able to guard you not stumbling, and to set you in the presence of His glory unblemished, in gladness,

Jud 1:25 to the only wise God our Saviour, is glory and greatness, power and authority, both now and to all the ages! Amen.

Joh 6:39 `And this is the will of the Father who sent me, that all that He hath given to me I may not lose of it, but may raise it up in the last day;

Joh 6:40 and this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day.'

Joh 10:27 according as I said to you: My sheep my voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow me,

Joh 10:28 and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish--to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of my hand;

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[Athanasian Creed]

I voted no. I do believe one can, by disobedience, take themselves out of God's hand.

I agree with 'PapaLandShark' that true, geniune salvation results in a changed life. There are plenty of "ifs" regarding salvation, that to me means it is conditional upon continued obedience to Christ and His Word - "IF you love Me, keep My commandments", "IF a man love Me, he will keep My words", "IF a man abide NOT in Me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered..."(if one was, at a point in time, a branch, that means he abided in Christ and belonged to Him) Paul also makes mention of a person "holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:" That speaks of a person exercising free will to reject/disobey God after once having saving faith. Etc., etc., etc.

I do, however, believe that if one continues to abide in Christ that God will enable that person to withstand all the forces of the enemy and that nothing will be able, in that case, to seperate them from God and His love - BUT it is conditional upon remaining in Christ as He commands us to do !


Ray


P.S. Also, in the parable of the Prodical Son, the father only made a move in the direction of the son when the son FIRST made the move BACK to the father - then, in response, the father ran towards the son, seeking reconciliation.

 

[AJ]

or because they thought Christian chicks are cuter,