Eternal Justification !

[moonbeam]

Point #1 Justification is an immanent, and consequently an eternal act. This argument must be allowed conclusive, unless it can be proved that Justification is a transient act.

The three unique individual persons/entities/spirits who comprise the Godhead - The One God - are/is the only self-existent being who is wholly distinct and alone and exhaustively self-fulfilled within Himself - (the doctrine of the Aseity of God)

God posses a profound ontological distinction - God is absolutely distinct from, and exists entirely separate from, that which He creates... although He fills the heavens and the earth and upholds all things by the word of His power (creation in its totality)

All of the exhaustive thoughts of Gods mind are necessarily immanent and consequently eternal... the judgement (decree) of Adams innocence, and condemnation, and justification… as well as… the judgement (decree) that Satan be the covering cherub before the throne of God, and the judgment that iniquity be found in him, are all, equally, immanent and consequently an eternal act of God (prior to Creation) for they all originate within Gods mind.

So the assertion made by Brine - “This argument must be allowed conclusive, unless it can be proved that Justification is a transient act.” - is effectively negated.

Brines assertion is further negated by the definition of immanent provided - Philosophy . (of a mental act) taking place within the mind of the subject and having no effect outside of it. Compare transeunt.

All of the thought of God concerning the entire scope of His eternal purpose prior to creation… are necessarily transeunt... for the thought of God… is the eternal purpose of God… and that purpose is the entire scope of Creation... which is distinct (outside) from Him.

Therefore, the judgement (decree) of justification of the elect are both, equally and necessarily, an immanent act, and a transeunt act, of the Triune God.
.

 

[Brightfame52]

Point 2

2. The elect were by God considered and viewed in Christ from everlasting; which is excellently expressed by Dr. Thomas Goodwin in these words:

"Look, as God did not, in his decrees about creation, consider the body of Adam singly and apart from his soul, nor yet the soul without the body (I speak of his creation and state thereby) neither should either so much as exist, but as the one in the other: so nor Christ and his church in election, which gave the first existence to Christ as a head, and to the church as his body, which each had in God's decrees." Exposition of the First Chapter of the Epistle to the Ephesians, London, 1681, Pt. 1, p. 72.

Now as God considers His elect in Christ, they are either objects of condemnation, or Justification. The former must be denied, and therefore the latter evidently follows; except, as God beholds the elect in Christ, they are neither objects of condemnation, nor Justification; which is an absurdity that none will admit.

There is no doubt that God viewed His Chosen In Christ before the Foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 2

 

[Brightfame52]

@moonbeam

So once again… How do you account for God charging Adam and Eve with sin?

I have stated that. Adam and eve incurred condemnation by/in their head Adam Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Yet because the elect were already in Christ by election, the incurred condemnation was imputed to Christ, their Surety. This is something i have been over and over with you, now if you cant receive it, thats not my problem

 

[Brightfame52]

The three unique individual persons/entities/spirits who comprise the Godhead - The One God - are/is the only self-existent being who is wholly distinct and alone and exhaustively self-fulfilled within Himself - (the doctrine of the Aseity of God)

God posses a profound ontological distinction - God is absolutely distinct from, and exists entirely separate from, that which He creates... although He fills the heavens and the earth and upholds all things by the word of His power (creation in its totality)

All of the exhaustive thoughts of Gods mind are necessarily immanent and consequently eternal... the judgement (decree) of Adams innocence, and condemnation, and justification… as well as… the judgement (decree) that Satan be the covering cherub before the throne of God, and the judgment that iniquity be found in him, are all, equally, immanent and consequently an eternal act of God (prior to Creation) for they all originate within Gods mind.

So the assertion made by Brine - “This argument must be allowed conclusive, unless it can be proved that Justification is a transient act.” - is effectively negated.

Brines assertion is further negated by the definition of immanent provided - Philosophy . (of a mental act) taking place within the mind of the subject and having no effect outside of it. Compare transeunt.

All of the thought of God concerning the entire scope of His eternal purpose prior to creation… are necessarily transeunt... for the thought of God… is the eternal purpose of God… and that purpose is the entire scope of Creation... which is distinct (outside) from Him.

Therefore, the judgement (decree) of justification of the elect are both, equally and necessarily, an immanent act, and a transeunt act, of the Triune God.
.

This is specifically about the elect, not all creation

 

[moonbeam]

This is specifically about the elect, not all creation

The eternal purpose of God regards the full scope of the creation is focused on the elect - Rom 8:19

KjV - For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

NKJV - For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

NSAB - For the eagerly awaiting creation waits for the revealing of the sons and daughters of God.

Point # 1 - is defeated... and lies in smouldering ruins.
.

 

[moonbeam]

I have stated that. Adam and eve incurred condemnation by/in their head Adam Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Yet because the elect were already in Christ by election, the incurred condemnation was imputed to Christ, their Surety. This is something i have been over and over with you, now if you cant receive it, thats not my problem

Once again... for the benefit of the reader.

The aberrant fallacy of eternal justification - acknowledges that Adam (and Eve) are elect of God in the eternal purpose of God (prior to creation)

Because Adams (and Eve) condemnation for sin has been imputed to Christ, their surety, in the eternal purpose of God (prior to creation)... Adam (and Eve) are justified in/from eternity (prior to creation).

The imputation of the righteousness of Christ to Adam (and Eve) is inclusive of both His passive and active obedience to all the law of God.

Therefore, in the fallacy of eternal justification - Adam (and Eve) are created with (by imputation) with the personal active obedience of Christ, such that they are clothed in the active righteousness of Christ, and accordingly, are viewed as such by God (the Father).

So the dilemma (logical incongruence) for the advocate of eternal justification is that Adam (and Eve) is in personal possession of the active obedience and righteousness of the second Person of the Triune God (the Son) from their first breath of life... yet the first Person of the Triune God (the Father) charged them with sin resulting in condemnation.

That is the logical incongruence (dilemma) that the advocate of the aberrant fallacy of eternal justification cannot solve.

PS - as evidenced by his incapability to do so.
.

 

[moonbeam]

Point 2

Now as God considers His elect in Christ, they are either objects of condemnation, or Justification. The former must be denied, and therefore the latter evidently follows; except, as God beholds the elect in Christ, they are neither objects of condemnation, nor Justification; which is an absurdity that none will admit.

Is it an absurdity to admit that God beholds the elect in Christ, first and foremost as objects of love?

Between the three Persons/Entities/Spirits that is/are the Triune God, the One God, there exists the perfection of sublime joy and love.

In the eternal purpose of God (prior to creation) - The union between the second Person of the Triune God (who possesses life in and of Himself) and the elect children of God (who do not posses life in and of themselves) but who receive their life and existence from God - it is a logical necessity that they (the elect) are first and foremost objects of love - because the second Person of the Triune God (Christ) interpenetrates the Father and Holy Spirit in the perfection of sublime joy and love - God is light and God is love.

As objects of love, first and foremost (the elect) - it follows that the decree of condemnation and the decree to justification are subordinate in the eternal purpose of God (prior to creation) - Ephesians 1:4

KJV - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

NASB - just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love

Point #2 - is defeated.
.

 

[Brightfame52]

Point # 3

Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The Elect were blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ before the foundation of the world, and therefore with Justification, for that is a spiritual blessing !

It was then they were taken into covenant relationship with and in Him, to be God's peculiar people, and were thereby eternally Justified in Him from all things. It was then that Christ their Chosen Head became their Surety, and covenanted to pay all their sin debts as Justice due, for the sin they shall commit in Adam along with all the sins they shall commit after their personal manifestation into the world !

This Grace by which they are Eternally Justified, was given to them In Christ [Their Surety Head and Mediator] before the world began,2 Tim 1:9, from Everlasting, because from everlasting God Loved them in Christ Jer 31:3 and made them accepted in Him Eph 1:6 !

 

[Brightfame52]

The eternal purpose of God regards the full scope of the creation is focused on the elect - Rom 8:19

KjV - For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

NKJV - For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

NSAB - For the eagerly awaiting creation waits for the revealing of the sons and daughters of God.

Point # 1 - is defeated... and lies in smouldering ruins.
.

This is specifically about the eternal Justification of the elect. And its defeated in your mind, which means zelch to me

 

[Brightfame52]

Once again... for the benefit of the reader.

The aberrant fallacy of eternal justification - acknowledges that Adam (and Eve) are elect of God in the eternal purpose of God (prior to creation)

Because Adams (and Eve) condemnation for sin has been imputed to Christ, their surety, in the eternal purpose of God (prior to creation)... Adam (and Eve) are justified in/from eternity (prior to creation).

The imputation of the righteousness of Christ to Adam (and Eve) is inclusive of both His passive and active obedience to all the law of God.

Therefore, in the fallacy of eternal justification - Adam (and Eve) are created with (by imputation) with the personal active obedience of Christ, such that they are clothed in the active righteousness of Christ, and accordingly, are viewed as such by God (the Father).

So the dilemma (logical incongruence) for the advocate of eternal justification is that Adam (and Eve) is in personal possession of the active obedience and righteousness of the second Person of the Triune God (the Son) from their first breath of life... yet the first Person of the Triune God (the Father) charged them with sin resulting in condemnation.

That is the logical incongruence (dilemma) that the advocate of the aberrant fallacy of eternal justification cannot solve.

PS - as evidenced by his incapability to do so.
.

I have stated that. Adam and eve incurred condemnation by/in their head Adam Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Yet because the elect were already in Christ by election, the incurred condemnation was imputed to Christ, their Surety. This is something i have been over and over with you, now if you cant receive it, that's not my problem

See both the Surety and elect both cant be legally responsible for the incurred condemnation of Rom 5:18

 

[Brightfame52]

Is it an absurdity to admit that God beholds the elect in Christ, first and foremost as objects of love?

Between the three Persons/Entities/Spirits that is/are the Triune God, the One God, there exists the perfection of sublime joy and love.

In the eternal purpose of God (prior to creation) - The union between the second Person of the Triune God (who possesses life in and of Himself) and the elect children of God (who do not posses life in and of themselves) but who receive their life and existence from God - it is a logical necessity that they (the elect) are first and foremost objects of love - because the second Person of the Triune God (Christ) interpenetrates the Father and Holy Spirit in the perfection of sublime joy and love - God is light and God is love.

As objects of love, first and foremost (the elect) - it follows that the decree of condemnation and the decree to justification are subordinate in the eternal purpose of God (prior to creation) - Ephesians 1:4

KJV - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

NASB - just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love

Point #2 - is defeated.
.

No its not defeated save in your mind and opinion, in my opinion it stands true.

 

[moonbeam]

This is specifically about the eternal Justification of the elect. And its defeated in your mind, which means zelch to me

My initial response to your Point #1 ... being my post 141 completely demolished your primary argument... a portion of which I will repeat below.

All of the thought of God concerning the entire scope of His eternal purpose prior to creation… are necessarily transeunt... for the thought of God… is the eternal purpose of God… and that purpose is the entire scope of Creation... which is distinct (outside) from Him.

Therefore, the judgement (decree) of justification of the elect are both, equally and necessarily, an immanent act, and a transeunt act, of the Triune God.

For additional clarity the definition of transeunt - adjective. , Philosophy. (of a mental act) producing an effect outside of the mind.

You than objected to that demolition job with this inane comment - "This is specifically about the elect, not all creation"

To which I replied with the following in post 145

The eternal purpose of God regards the full scope of the creation is focused on the elect - Rom 8:19

NKJV - For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.



Which brings us to your current response in the Quote box.... to which I now reply below.

Point # 1 - is defeated... and lies in smouldering ruins. - Let the reader determine for themselves.
.

 

[Brightfame52]

Point 4

When Christ, as a surety, engaged for the elect, they were Justified. "At the same time in which Christ became a surety for us, and our sins were imputed to him, we were absolved from guilt, and reputed just; that is, actively justified:" Which was from everlasting, or before the foundation of the world.

I believe God the Father constituted His Son a Surety in the Counsel of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Prov 8:22-23,31

22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

31Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. 3

 

[Brightfame52]

My initial response to your Point #1 ... being my post 141 completely demolished your primary argument... a portion of which I will repeat below.

All of the thought of God concerning the entire scope of His eternal purpose prior to creation… are necessarily transeunt... for the thought of God… is the eternal purpose of God… and that purpose is the entire scope of Creation... which is distinct (outside) from Him.

Therefore, the judgement (decree) of justification of the elect are both, equally and necessarily, an immanent act, and a transeunt act, of the Triune God.

For additional clarity the definition of transeunt - adjective. , Philosophy. (of a mental act) producing an effect outside of the mind.

You than objected to that demolition job with this inane comment - "This is specifically about the elect, not all creation"

To which I replied with the following in post 145

The eternal purpose of God regards the full scope of the creation is focused on the elect - Rom 8:19

NKJV - For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.



Which brings us to your current response in the Quote box.... to which I now reply below.

Point # 1 - is defeated... and lies in smouldering ruins. - Let the reader determine for themselves.
.

Its defeated to you, that's your opinion. Im giving reasons, biblical reasons, why the elect are Justified from eternity. You just reject the reasons, and then you state why, which is fine, but changes nothing.

 

[moonbeam]

No its not defeated save in your mind and opinion, in my opinion it stands true.

From my post 147

In the eternal purpose of God (prior to creation) - The union between the second Person of the Triune God (who possesses life in and of Himself) and the elect children of God (who do not posses life in and of themselves) but who receive their life and existence from God - it is a logical necessity that they (the elect) are first and foremost objects of love - because the second Person of the Triune God (Christ) interpenetrates the Father and Holy Spirit in the perfection of sublime joy and love - God is light and God is love.

As objects of love, first and foremost (the elect) - it follows that the decree of condemnation and the decree to justification are subordinate in the eternal purpose of God (prior to creation) - Ephesians 1:4

KJV - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


It is impossible to form any argumentation against that truth (principle) that the elect children of God who are in union with Christ are first and foremost objects of love.

Why is that significant regards the aberrant fallacy of eternal justification?

Because it validates the orthodox reformed perspective... and by necessary consequence invalidates the fallacy of eternal justification.

How so?

Love/Light is the first principle (because that is what God IS)... Condemnation (resulting from love of righteousness) and Grace (derivative of love) and Mercy (derivative of love) and Justification (derivative of love) etc etc... in what ever order.

Because both the decree of condemnation and justification are subordinate to love (love of the elect)

Therefore

Love of the elect... requires the elect (to exist)... because they are the objects of love.

For the object of love to exist... it must be created... because it does not exist otherwise.

Hence the immanent and transuent act of God... to create the specific individual objects of His love (the elect) in Love.

Created IN LOVE first and foremost (antecedent)... with all subordinate decrees (Condemnation and Justification)... to follow... in logical order.

Point #2 - is defeated. - Let the reader determine for himself.
.

 

[Brightfame52]

From my post 147

In the eternal purpose of God (prior to creation) - The union between the second Person of the Triune God (who possesses life in and of Himself) and the elect children of God (who do not posses life in and of themselves) but who receive their life and existence from God - it is a logical necessity that they (the elect) are first and foremost objects of love - because the second Person of the Triune God (Christ) interpenetrates the Father and Holy Spirit in the perfection of sublime joy and love - God is light and God is love.

As objects of love, first and foremost (the elect) - it follows that the decree of condemnation and the decree to justification are subordinate in the eternal purpose of God (prior to creation) - Ephesians 1:4

KJV - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


It is impossible to form any argumentation against that truth (principle) that the elect children of God who are in union with Christ are first and foremost objects of love.

Why is that significant regards the aberrant fallacy of eternal justification?

Because it validates the orthodox reformed perspective... and by necessary consequence invalidates the fallacy of eternal justification.

How so?

Love/Light is the first principle (because that is what God IS)... Condemnation (resulting from love of righteousness) and Grace (derivative of love) and Mercy (derivative of love) and Justification (derivative of love) etc etc... in what ever order.

Because both the decree of condemnation and justification are subordinate to love (love of the elect)

Therefore

Love of the elect... requires the elect (to exist)... because they are the objects of love.

For the object of love to exist... it must be created... because it does not exist otherwise.

Hence the immanent and transuent act of God... to create the specific individual objects of His love (the elect) in Love.

Created IN LOVE first and foremost (antecedent)... with all subordinate decrees (Condemnation and Justification)... to follow... in logical order.

Point #2 - is defeated. - Let the reader determine for himself.
.

In your opinion my points are defeated.

 

[Brightfame52]

Point 5

God eternally decreed not to punish sin in his people, but in his Son. His decree to punish sin in his Son, includes his will to impute it to him; and his purpose not to punish it in his elect, takes in his will not to impute it to them, and must be their Justification from all sin in his sight.

I believe this is why Paul wrote 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

This has to do with God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

This Eternal Purpose in Christ is the same as the Everlasting Covenant with Christ, and God never purposed to impute sins to the Elect, but upon Christ, so this was their Justification ! 3

 

[Brightfame52]

6. "Christ's atonement and bearing sin was in the eye of God from eternity, as if already done: hence the patriarchs were actually and personally justified by it,"

as Dr. Isaac Chauncy well observes. Neonomianism Unmasked, London, 1692, Part 2, p. 53. Therefore why may it not be concluded that the elect were justified from everlasting, since God had the atonement of Christ then in His eye? I should be glad to see these arguments thoroughly examined, and solidly refuted, if they do not sufficiently prove what they are brought for.

We know this point to be True because of such scriptures as 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Brightfame52]

Because of Suretyship !

Justification before the foundation for the Elect of God is True because of Christ's Suretyship in the Everlasting Covenant Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

This is Pre Creation within the Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Also called the Everlasting Covenant, Christ the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8, He agreed and took upon Himself all the sins of the Elect to sponsor, hence it was God's Purpose not to charge them [sins and lawbreaking] against His Elect, but confirmed Christ's Suretyship, therefore He became the main debtor to God's Law and Justice for their sins, and they being made free from any and all accountability, for themselves to satisfy God's Law and Justice ! To deny this Justification is to deny a foundational blessing of Christ's Suretyship for His Sheep ! 3

 

[Brightfame52]

The Fruit of Eternal Justification !

As the fruit of Eternal Justification, there will be subsequent declarations of Justification and or manifestations of Justification. For example, the Resurrection of Jesus Christ as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, declares that the Sheep are Justified Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.

So The Resurrection declares Eternal Justification because the sins Christ died for, He was given Suretyship of them before the World began,

And Faith declares the sinner Justified as they receive experimental peace and joy and spiritual Knowledge of Justification by Faith Rom 5:1

But these are fruits of Eternal Justification !