Eternal justification

[Iosias]

Do you hold to this doctrine?

 

[Foundthelight]

Do you hold to this doctrine?

I hold to the Reformed Doctrine of Perseverence of the Saints. Is this what you are referring to?

 

[mlqurgw]

Yes I do. It has become a contoversy, though, among the churches I associate with. It seems that someone always wants to stir up trouble.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Do you hold to this doctrine?

Yes. Rom. 8:30

And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[Foundthelight]

Yes I do. It has become a contoversy, though, among the churches I associate with. It seems that someone always wants to stir up trouble.

Print out a copy of Boettner's "The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination". Invite them to read it and have a small group study that discusses it.

They probably won't but it is worth a try.

 

[mlqurgw]

Print out a copy of Boettner's "The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination". Invite them to read it and have a small group study that discusses it.

They probably won't but it is worth a try.

The controversy is among the pastors and as they are scattered all over the US it would be difficult. There are some who seem to have the spirit of Diotrephes.

 

[Foundthelight]

The controversy is among the pastors and as they are scattered all over the US it would be difficult. There are some who seem to have the spirit of Diotrephes.

If you feel strongly enough e-mail it to them. It is available from

http://www.ccel.org/

 

[Irishcat922]

Define what you mean by Eternal justification. The Westminster Confession I believe is correct on this issue. The Decree is eternal but our justification occurs in time. And yes it lasts forever if that is what you mean. Historically the Doctrine of Eternal Justification has been seen as antinomian heresy. So be careful how you word it.



WCF Chapter 11

4. God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect,(11) and Christ did, in the fullness of time, die for their sins, and rise again for their justification:(12) nevertheless, they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit does, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them.(13)


5. God does continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified;(14) and although they can never fall from the sate of justification,(15) yet they may, by their sins, fall under God's fatherly displeasure, and not have the light of His countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.(16)

 

[McWilliams]

No, I dont. God foreknew and chose us in eternity past but we are not justified until that point in history we are regenerated and our faith is in Him. He knew we would be His but we did not and continued in sin until that moment!

 

[Bulldog]

I think a distinction needs to be made between perpetuality and eternality.

 

[McWilliams]

Well, I have found this interpretation by Spurgeon so I'll just have to give this more thought as this appears to be a likely view. More thought needed here for sure.

http://www.soundofgrace.com/v6n4/chsetrnlju.htm

 

[Catholic Dude]

Im not calvinist, but my suggestion is the question should be reworded because most of us dont know what the issue is exactly.

 

[cygnusx1]

the issue was hammered out in the 18th Century , mostly amongst Calvinist Baptists like Brine , Gill and Gadsby.

The point is Election is eternal , but justification takes place (as does salvation) in time.(BRINE AND OTHERS ARGUED FOR ETERNAL JUSTIFICATION)

here you go .......... JOHN BRINE.

http://www.mountzionpbc.org/Index/index03.htm

 

[Irishcat922]

As I have already stated the Puritans were clear on the isuue when the wrote the confession. Search the scriptures!


WCF
11:4 God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect (Rom_8:30; Gal_3:8; 1Pe_1:2, 1Pe_1:19, 1Pe_1:20), and Christ did, in the fulness of time, die for their sins, and rise again for their justification (Rom_4:25; Gal_4:4; 1Ti_2:6): nevertheless, they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit doth, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them (Gal_2:16; Col_1:21, Col_1:22; ***_3:4-7).

 

[Irishcat922]

As I have already stated the Puritans were clear on the isuue when the wrote the confession. Search the scriptures!


WCF
11:4 God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect (Rom_8:30; Gal_3:8; 1Pe_1:2, 1Pe_1:19, 1Pe_1:20), and Christ did, in the fulness of time, die for their sins, and rise again for their justification (Rom_4:25; Gal_4:4; 1Ti_2:6): nevertheless, they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit doth, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them (Gal_2:16; Col_1:21, Col_1:22; ***_3:4-7).

 

[mlqurgw]

Here is a short article written by Don Fortner, my pastor:

http://www.donfortner.com/bulletin_articles/topical/e_through_g/FOUR%20FACTS%20ABOUT%20JUSTIFICATION.htm

 

[Rick Otto]

with the doctrine as I know it, but I don't assume I know it the same way others do.
AV would've done us a favor to articulate it the way he understands it.
BTW, I am pleasantly intrigued by our visiting Catholic friends hangin' out with us lately.

 

[Iosias]

AV would've done us a favor to articulate it the way he understands it.

A. I wanted to see how you answered the question and
B. I have not had access to my computer recently, but
C. I would distinguish between the Doctrine of Eternal Justification and the Doctrine of Justification from Eternity. I would then reject the former and accept the latter. (http://www.evangelica.de/Reformation%20Today.htm)

Recommended reading:
1. http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/Sermons&Tracts/sermon_37.htm
2. http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/Doctrinal_Divinity/Book_2/book2_05.htm
3. http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/Doctrinal_Divinity/Book_6/book6_08.htm

 

[Rick Otto]

I'll check those out later when I have some more time, but at a glance...
Eternal Justification sounds like being existentialy trapped on one of those excercise wheels in a hamster cage, compared to Justification from Eternity.
The latter evokes God's sovereighnity in MY last operative brain cell.

Eternal Justification sounds like the modus operandi of the "Sisters of Perpetual Responsibility".

 

[DrWarfield]

When will we who are of the Reformed persuasion move away from the scholastic Protestant categories and philosophies, and into true Biblical and Systematic Theology? This debate on 'eternal justification' smacks of supra biblical, and scholastic overtones.

Regards,
DrWarfield