Eternal justification

[moonbeam]

More back and forth on the subject...

The body of Christ has been plagued by false doctrine since it's inception.

It's a long and winding road…

As the Beatles, and The LORD God Almighty would have it.

 

[JM]

No comment.

 

[moonbeam]

Does anyone know of a reputable Christian Confession of Faith which endorses justification from eternity ?

I know the major Reformed and Baptist confessions are all worded to ensure it's rejection.

On the grounds that it is false doctrine.

 

[Rick Otto]

DD2008, any thoughts on justification from eternity?

You thinkin' Eph1:4? Election being determined before creation?
That would rule out foreknowlege as clairvoyance.

I fully agree with the synod of Dort's 5 points, but I part ways with Calvin on sacramentology (preferring Zwingli), and on ecclesiology, especialy in the area of Church discipline.

Being Protestant allows me to appreciate truth for what it is instead of who claims to own it.

 

[JM]

Being Protestant allows me to appreciate truth for what it is instead of who claims to own it.

 

[Rick Otto]

Thank you, but be cautious.
I don't believe in free will, but I accept free will donations.

 

[JM]

Thank you, but be cautious.
I don't believe in free will, but I accept free will donations.

Same!

 

[gord44]

I was about to respond to a post until I saw that the post was from 2006 lol.

 

[JM]

I was about to respond to a post until I saw that the post was from 2006 lol.

Do it...do it...double dog dare you.

 

[Rick Otto]

Dr. Gill, diligently studying these doctrines, said that adoption was the act of God in eternity, and that as all believers were elect in eternity, so beyond a doubt they were adopted in eternity. He went further than that to include the doctrine of justification and he said that inasmuch as Jesus Christ was before all worlds justified by his Father, and accepted by him as our representative, therefore all the elect must have been justified in Christ from before all worlds

So then we agree? I believe we are justified by the imputed righteousness of Christ and that that justification is made ours in expeience by faith.

My understanding of justification is that God doesn't need to justify anything in His own eyes that He already determined was worth creating.
So justification exists for the world to see.
We are justified in our profession of faith as much as we are able to work out our salvation in our life.

My concern for justification is to glorify God, not to earn an already given salvation.
So now I try not to sin because I don't want to embarrass myself and possibly discredit God in the eyes of unbelievers, not because I'm afraid of going to hell.

 

[moonbeam]

Dr. Gill, diligently studying these doctrines, said that adoption was the act of God in eternity, and that as all believers were elect in eternity, so beyond a doubt they were adopted in eternity.

The principle concept of adoption is that the child is not your own…to begin with.

The child is, and belongs to, another…other than yourself.

From my reading of the scripture, apparently, God, alone, inhabits eternity.

How than could the child belong to another...in eternity ?

.

 

[Rick Otto]

No comment.

I have nothing to say about your lack of comment.

 

[JM]

I have nothing to say about your lack of comment.

I have no comment on your lack of comments on my no comment.

Lol

Peace bro,

jm

 

[moonbeam]

If a King gives a condemned man a pardon but the pardon doesn't reach the condemned man for a few days, or even months, when does the pardon actually take place? Does the pardon depend on the decree from the King to pardon or the condemned man's apprehension of it? Just a thought

How can the pardon be actualised…if the condemned man has no apprehension of it ?

If the condemned man is executed (perchance) before receiving his pardon…how effective was the pardon ?


To be pardoned…(one must know)…that he is pardoned.

Hence the logical necessity of the sequencing in the temporal domain…which is subsumed, within, the Eternal, I Am.

"There is no succession in the knowledge of God. The variety of successions and changes in the world make not succession, or new objects in the Divine mind; for all things are present to him from eternity in regard of his knowledge, though they are not actually present in the world, in regard of their existence. He doth not know one thing now, and another anon; he sees all things at once; "Known unto God are all things from the beginning of the world" (Acts 15:18); but in their true order of succession, as they lie in the eternal council of God, to be brought forth in time. Though there be a succession and order of things as they are wrought, there is yet no succession in God in regard of his knowledge of them. God knows the things that shall be wrought, and the order of them in their being brought upon the stage of the world; yet both the things and the order he knows by one act. Though all things be present with God, yet they are present to him in the order of their appearance in the world, and not so present with him as if they should be wrought at once. The death of Christ was to precede his resurrection in order of time; there is a succession in this; both at once are known by God; yet the act of his knowledge is not exercised about Christ as dying and rising at the same time; so that there is succession in things when there is no succession in God's knowledge of them. Since God knows time, he knows all things as they are in time; he doth not know all things to be at once, though he knows at once what is, has been, and will be. All things are past, present, and to come, in regard of their existence; but there is not past, present, and to come, in regard of God's knowledge of them, because he sees and knows not by any other, but by himself; he is his own light by which he sees, his own glass wherein he sees; beholding himself, he beholds all things."
​

Stephen Charnock

"Though all things be present with God, yet they are present to him in the order of their appearance in the world,"

JM - Charnock is correct in his thought here…God's decree to create, is unfolding.

It is active…not static.

Charnock's comments here are quite destructive of core principles which you adhere to, in defending justification, in, and from, eternity.


PS - You really should choose your quotes with more care.

.

 

[JM]

Well, I have found this interpretation by Spurgeon so I'll just have to give this more thought as this appears to be a likely view. More thought needed here for sure.

http://www.soundofgrace.com/v6n4/chsetrnlju.htm

The quote from Spurgeon is no longer up so I'll post it, "while I find the majority of sound divines holding that the works of justification and adoption are due in our lives I see, on the other hand, in Scripture much to lead me to believe that both of them were done in eternity; and I think the fairest view of the case is, that while they were virtually done in eternity, yet both adoption and justification are actually passed upon us, in our proper persons, consciences, and experiences, in time,—so that both the Westminster confession and the idea of Dr. Gill can be proved to be Scriptural, and we may hold them both without any prejudice the one to the other."

 

[moonbeam]

"while I find the majority of sound divines holding that the works of justification and adoption are due in our lives…"

Spurgeon's leading remark should not go unnoticed.

He was wise in doing so…

...not trusting in his own [wisdom]



He than gives his opinion…which we are all entitled to.

.