eternal death

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I was always taught that eternal death meant suffering for all eternity. But I cannot find any Biblical proof that those cast into the Lake of Fire will be alive and suffering forever. I know that eternal means forever, but where does it say alive forever?
 

Anthony2019

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Anyone who places their faith in Jesus will be saved. There is not one person living on this earth who will be denied mercy if they repent and turn to him (Hebrews 7:25).

As for what happens in the afterlife, particularly to the impenitent, I leave that matter in the hands of God. I know from scripture that the central characteristic of God is Love (1 John 4:8) that he is omnipresent (Psalms 139:8), omnipotent (Job 11:7-11, Hebrews 1:3), omnibenevolent (Psalms 100:5) and just (Psalms 89:14). But ultimately God has given people the free will to choose whether they wish to accept or reject Him (Matthew 22:37, Joshua 24:14-15)
 
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Jonaitis

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I was always taught that eternal death meant suffering for all eternity. But I cannot find any Biblical proof that those cast into the Lake of Fire will be alive and suffering forever. I know that eternal means forever, but where does it say alive forever?

First, God has "fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness" (Act. 17:31), an event that will follow after the resurrection from the dead. "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2). We read that when Christ will come in his glory, he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the goats from the sheep. "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46). Whereas one people will be thrown alive in the Valley of Hinnom "where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched" (Mark. 9:48), the righteous will be alive in the new heaven and earth forever in glory (2 Pet. 3:13).

Death is the temporal separation of the soul from the body, eternal death is the permanent and eternal separation of God's glorious goodness, mercy, presence from man in perfect wrath, indignation, and punishment. "They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed" (2 Thess. 1:9-10). Whereas, for the righteous, God will "wipe away every tear from their eyes" (Rev. 21:4), the unrighteous "will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Luk. 13:28). It is a conscious state, body and soul, there.

When we speak of life, we speak of the things that are enjoyed in life. Eternal death, in contrast to eternal life, is the absence of what is enjoyed in the next life. Just as the soul cannot enjoy this life without the body, the wicked in eternal death will not taste the life enjoyed by the righteous in the next world. That's what is being implied by that term. In hell, not only will they be away form the glorious presence of God, but they will never enjoy anything again, a death of death that we cannot comprehend under divine judgment and wrath.
 
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I was always taught that eternal death meant suffering for all eternity. But I cannot find any Biblical proof that those cast into the Lake of Fire will be alive and suffering forever. I know that eternal means forever, but where does it say alive forever?
On the other hand, none of the verses that refer to the Lake of Fire mention the souls cast into it as being consumed or annihilated by it. Is it that we simply assume that a fire must consumes its fuel, even in the spirit world?
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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But I cannot find any Biblical proof that those cast into the Lake of Fire will be alive and suffering forever.

Adam and Eve were told that they would die the same day that they took the fruit. Then, they took the fruit and instead of dying they were expelled from their nice world into a much harder one. It's the same situation all over again.

It's all in the understanding of the meaning of death.
 
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eleos1954

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I was always taught that eternal death meant suffering for all eternity. But I cannot find any Biblical proof that those cast into the Lake of Fire will be alive and suffering forever. I know that eternal means forever, but where does it say alive forever?

What loving God would torture people for eternity?

We are mortal. No one becomes immortal until the return of Jesus. 1st resurrection.

To believe to be tortured in a burning hell for eternity is subscribing to those persons also becoming immortal ... in a burning hell "forever" (for eternity) ... but immortal non the less.

People ask the question What kind of a loving God would burn people in hell "forever"? Fact is, He don't. This is making God out to be a sadistic terrorist. A deceitful teaching rooted in Satan to keep people from coming to the Lord (ie "You surely will not die". Is it any wonder that many people immediately dismiss the existence of loving God?

Psalm 1:6 “But the way of the ungodly shall perish (singular)” (2nd death)

Psalm 37:20 “But the wicked shall perish… they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.” (consume - totally destroyed)

Perish (singular - not perishing ) suffer complete ruin or destruction.

Psalm 69:28 says that the wicked are “blotted out of the book of the living.” (they will not receive eternal life)

Ps. 34:16, 21 “evil brings death to the wicked.” (2nd death)

Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.” (self-explanatory)

Prov. 24:20 “the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.” (will not continue life)

Dan. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.” (no trace of the wicked totally gone)

Isa. 1:28, 30–31 “rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.” (consumed - totally destroyed)

Obadiah 1:16 It will be as if the evil “had never been.“ (non-existent)

Mal 4:1 “All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.” (they will be totally burned up - destroyed by fire)

Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

John 3:16 “…whosoever believeth in him should not perish (singular)” (2nd death)

Matthew 7:13: “broad is the road that leads to destruction“ (totally destroyed)

Philippians 3:19 “whose end is destruction…“ (destroyed)

2 Thessalonians 1:9 “who shall be punished with everlasting destruction …” (destroyed - never to live again)

1 Cor 3:17: “God will destroy that person”

2 Cor 2:15-16: “those that perish“ (2nd death)

Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death..“ (2nd death)

James 4:12a “There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.”

2 Peter 2:3: “Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” (the unsaved in the grave will face destruction) 2nd resurrection

Revelation 20:9

(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell.

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”

Death is Death ... cease to exist. The first death (earthly death of the saved) is temporal ... the 2nd death is final (for the lost) and for eternity (cease to exist).

God Bless.
 
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John the Ex-Baptist

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I was always taught that eternal death meant suffering for all eternity. But I cannot find any Biblical proof that those cast into the Lake of Fire will be alive and suffering forever. I know that eternal means forever, but where does it say alive forever?
I'm not really quite sure where you're getting this from? There are manifold clear passages of Scripture, both in Old and New Testaments that show the eternal nature of the Final Judgment against sin. The saddest thing of all to me is that the Lake of Fire was not designed for mankind, but the devil and his angels. Yet the truth is that countless souls will share in their eternal torment.


Matthew 25:41–46 (ESV)
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

It takes wishful thinking that borders on delusional to read passages such as this and fail to acknowledge the eternal nature of the punishment that will be meted out at the return of Christ to judge the living and the dead. Perhaps it would be more fitting for us as Christians to allow the truth of God's Word to speak for itself, and fill us with a sense of urgency to proclaim the life giving Gospel of Christ crucified for the sins of the world, to everyone we cross paths with. Or at least fervently pray that may be the case in our own lives.
 
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com7fy8

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I know that eternal means forever, but where does it say alive forever?
You might consider how Paul says a woman "who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives." (in 1 Timothy 5:6)

So, it is possible to be "dead" but conscious > love-dead, though very conscious in selfish living.

And we see already how people in selfish living are tormented. It is their own nature which is their problem, how they can suffer torment. God is not making them suffer.

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

This is part of why ones need to trust in Jesus: so He changes our nature so we can not suffer the torment of sin.

"Destruction and misery are in their ways,
.And the way of peace they have not known."
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Romans 3:16-17)

Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.” (self-explanatory)
I have offered above how death and destruction can be conscious. This includes how ones refusing Jesus will suffer in

"everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" > in 2 Thessalonians 1:9.

The conscious destruction is being away from the presence of Jesus and His peace. They are deeply ruined, but conscious, by not being with Jesus in His "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30). The destruction is a living sort of destruction, but not living in God's love, but in one's selfish and sin-infected nature.

And Adam and Eve were punished by being put out of Eden, where they then suffered. And ones still in sin are now already suffering, in the punishment of Adam and Eve.

And ones already are getting their sample of what is in hell. Their misery, pride, raging anger and unforgiveness and frustration and lusts are all of Satan's evil and vile "spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2). This evil spirit of selfishness will be in hell, in the flaming sewer which burns with fire and brimstone. So, it is wise not to be going along with this wicked filth to where it will be kept - - under the control of fire, since Satan's spirit is so stubborn.

Paul tells us to get rid of Satanic things which are on their way to hell, and get into God's love instead >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" (in Philippians 2:13-16)
 
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Mark Dohle

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I believe that Jesus Christ was perfetly human, our humanity is what is saved. So those in hell would be what is not really human, but left overs, as CS Lewis said. Hell is the opposite of what heaven is, not a place of life, or community, or love, or warmth of anykind. I pray that no one is there......however I do believe that no one goes there by some sort of accdient of birth, but all are loved and called. Jeus is Lord, eternal, infinite.....
 
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John the Ex-Baptist

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The conscious destruction is being away from the presence of Jesus and His peace. They are deeply ruined, but conscious, by not being with Jesus in His "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30). The destruction is a living sort of destruction, but not living in God's love, but in one's selfish and sin-infected nature.
I fully agree with this view of eternal torment in hell. I realise there is much symbolism spoken of in the Bible regarding unquenchable fire, or being cast into outer darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth etc., but I believe this type of speech is used to convey something that is truly hard to comprehend or put into words that convey the full force they need to.

Without wanting to turn this into a debate about end times timing of events, I think its fair to say that Christians generally can agree that at some point Jesus Christ will return in full glory to judge the living and the dead (as agreed in the ancient Christian creeds). When this happens, all who have ever lived will be raised from the dust of the earth to which they have returned, and along with those who were living at His return, will be called before His glorious throne. As described in Matt 25:31-46, Jesus will separate them "as sheep from the goats" and will finally send each to their own allotted eternal destiny:


Matthew 25:46 (ESV)
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

We must remember that when Christ returns in judgement, from that moment onward time ceases to continue. But rather it is an eternal state, which can be experienced basking in the full manifestation of the glory of God (eternal life), or being punished by spending eternity away from His glorious presence (eternal destruction). It is the polar opposite of how the Bible speaks of the eternal City to come:


Revelation 21:3–4 (ESV)
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

Instead there will be those who have knowingly forsaken that place of bliss, for that which they will now have for all eternity. Self pity, tears, wailing, gnashing of teeth. Longing for death that will never come etc.. Personally I find it almost unbearable to even contemplate such a place, and certainly do not believe that God has predestinated some to go there. But nevertheless I believe the Bible is pretty clear about the fact that such a place is both real and eternal.

People ask the question What kind of a loving God would burn people in hell "forever"? Fact is, He don't. This is making God out to be a sadistic terrorist. A deceitful teaching rooted in Satan to keep people from coming to the Lord (ie "You surely will not die". Is it any wonder that many people immediately dismiss the existence of loving God?

Whilst I can understand the sentiment of such an argument as above, I have to strenuously disagree with it no matter how much my flesh would like to agree. The truth is that God has prepared such a place, and will commit those who reject the Gospel of Christ crucified as an atoning sacrifice for their sins, to suffer the consequence of their sinful rebellion. And whilst our flesh wants to shout from the rooftops how unfair this is that some should suffer such a terrible thing, we must remember that in truth we should ALL suffer in such a way, because we have ALL sinned against God, and reaped death as a reward.

No my friends, if you want to see what true unfairness and injustice is, take a long, hard look at Jesus Christ. Being fully God, He willingly came to us, taking on the frailty of human flesh. Laying aside His majesty, He was willing to live out His earthly life, in poverty, suffering, and even to the most violently painful death that the evil minds of men could conjure up. All for us. All for those who would spit in His face, and cheer on those who nailed Him to the cross. For those who, even after being united with Him through baptism into His death and resurrection life, still sin against Him in thought, word and deed; both daily and much. Not only sparing them from eternal destruction, or even having the kindness to allow them to dwell in the presence of God for all eternity, but to be considered His brothers and sisters, and fully co-heirs to all that is rightfully His.

The fact of the matter is that there is only ONE person who has ever drawn breath on this earth who rightly deserves to spend eternity in the manifest presence of God the Father, and that is God the Son. Every other person from Adam through to the last person who is born rightly deserves to spend their eternity in hell on account of sin. Yet by the grace of God, and ONLY by His grace, a countless number from every tongue, tribe and nation will inherit eternal life through utterly no merit of their own, but solely on account of Jesus Christ, and His willingness to come and save us from that which was otherwise inevitable.
 
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com7fy8

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I believe this type of speech is used to convey something that is truly hard to comprehend or put into words that convey the full force they need to.
I possibly have experienced the brimstone, and it was the most horrible thing I have ever felt > two times. Each time was when I was being the wrong way with a Christian woman. I stayed conscious. And it had to do with how I was contacting her, not only what I was doing or where I was touching, like I was entitled . . . sleazy, instead of first caring for her and appreciating her affectionately.

Instead there will be those who have knowingly forsaken that place of bliss, for that which they will now have for all eternity.
Heaven is not only about ourselves getting our own bliss, though. First is how our Heavenly Father desires to have children who are delighting to Him like Jesus is > Romans 8:29. So, first we need to be about pleasing God, by submitting to how He deeply corrects us to become like Jesus. But I suspect a number of people are mainly hoping for how Heaven will make them feel good.

Also, some number talk about Heaven like it is mainly so they will see certain favorite people. But Jesus says,

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" in Matthew 5:46.

Personally I find it almost unbearable to even contemplate such a place, and certainly do not believe that God has predestinated some to go there.
My experience is the brimstone is horrible. But my own selfish nature made me able to be so effected. Fire can burn rubber, and fire can roast a chicken so it is finger-licking good and with a nice aroma. The results of the same fire are dependent on the nature of what is burning.

Hell is practical, then, for keeping the spirit of evil (Ephesians 2:2) and its vessels away. God is orderly; so He uses vessels for containing Satan's evil and foul and selfish spirit . . . sewage for the flaming sewer which burns with fire and brimstone. So, whether there is predestination of this or not, there is this purpose.

The spirit of evil has to go somewhere, and only fire can control Satan and his who are so stubborn and conceited that they feel they are too good for Jesus and forgiveness and loving any and all people as ourselves.
 
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Major1

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Adam and Eve were told that they would die the same day that they took the fruit. Then, they took the fruit and instead of dying they were expelled from their nice world into a much harder one. It's the same situation all over again.

It's all in the understanding of the meaning of death.

However, they died SPIRITUALLY the moment that they ate the fruit and at that very moment they needed a Saviour.
 
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Major1

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I was always taught that eternal death meant suffering for all eternity. But I cannot find any Biblical proof that those cast into the Lake of Fire will be alive and suffering forever. I know that eternal means forever, but where does it say alive forever?

My experience on this has shown that people will believe what they want to believe instead of what the Bible says.

You see, we all have loved ones who have died and the human mind has a real problem accepting that God would punich their loved one eternally in hell's fire.

Hitler...….........…..YES!
Stalin...............….YES!
Jack the Ripper......YES!
Baby killers...……….YES!

But surely NOT MY SON!

Romans 3:23...……..
"ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".

Romans 6:23...…...
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our LORD".

Matthew 25:41 ……..

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

John 3:18...…….
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Luke 16:23-24........
" and in HELL, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

Revelation 14:10-11 ...….
"they, too, will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."

Rev. 20:10-14...…..
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

With all the Scriptures available to us, it is hard for me to understand why anyone would not believe in the eternal torment of the wicked lost who refused to accept Jesus Christ.
 
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Major1

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On the other hand, none of the verses that refer to the Lake of Fire mention the souls cast into it as being consumed or annihilated by it. Is it that we simply assume that a fire must consumes its fuel, even in the spirit world?

Good thought. There are a few Scriptures that can be "forced" into making the soul consumed but when studied closer I do not think that is what is in view.

IMO, A belief in annihilationism results from a misunderstanding of one or more of the following doctrines:
1) the consequences of sin,
2) the justice of God,
3) the nature of hell.
 
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What the enemies can injure is our body, if God should so permit.

Only one fear should live in our hearts, an awe which stands in dread of God.

For God isn't a mere human tempter, nor is God Satan. God's the great God, the Judge.

Fear of human enemies implies lack of faith in God, which may in turn lead to damnation. And again: Why fear?

So little is the sparrow valued that one will be sold for less than one cent; so small's a single hair's loss that it isn't even noticed. Yet: Not a single one of the lowest of birds falls to the ground without God's consent; our head's hairs are numbered.

Will God whose care embraces life's details let harm befall us? Will God who gives the assurance that we're preferred above sparrows let the enemies harm us?
 
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Major1

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What loving God would torture people for eternity?

We are mortal. No one becomes immortal until the return of Jesus. 1st resurrection.

To believe to be tortured in a burning hell for eternity is subscribing to those persons also becoming immortal ... in a burning hell "forever" (for eternity) ... but immortal non the less.

People ask the question What kind of a loving God would burn people in hell "forever"? Fact is, He don't. This is making God out to be a sadistic terrorist. A deceitful teaching rooted in Satan to keep people from coming to the Lord (ie "You surely will not die". Is it any wonder that many people immediately dismiss the existence of loving God?

Psalm 1:6 “But the way of the ungodly shall perish (singular)” (2nd death)

Psalm 37:20 “But the wicked shall perish… they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.” (consume - totally destroyed)

Perish (singular - not perishing ) suffer complete ruin or destruction.

Psalm 69:28 says that the wicked are “blotted out of the book of the living.” (they will not receive eternal life)

Ps. 34:16, 21 “evil brings death to the wicked.” (2nd death)

Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.” (self-explanatory)

Prov. 24:20 “the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.” (will not continue life)

Dan. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.” (no trace of the wicked totally gone)

Isa. 1:28, 30–31 “rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.” (consumed - totally destroyed)

Obadiah 1:16 It will be as if the evil “had never been.“ (non-existent)

Mal 4:1 “All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.” (they will be totally burned up - destroyed by fire)

Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

John 3:16 “…whosoever believeth in him should not perish (singular)” (2nd death)

Matthew 7:13: “broad is the road that leads to destruction“ (totally destroyed)

Philippians 3:19 “whose end is destruction…“ (destroyed)

2 Thessalonians 1:9 “who shall be punished with everlasting destruction …” (destroyed - never to live again)

1 Cor 3:17: “God will destroy that person”

2 Cor 2:15-16: “those that perish“ (2nd death)

Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death..“ (2nd death)

James 4:12a “There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.”

2 Peter 2:3: “Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” (the unsaved in the grave will face destruction) 2nd resurrection

Revelation 20:9

(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell.

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”

Death is Death ... cease to exist. The first death (earthly death of the saved) is temporal ... the 2nd death is final (for the lost) and for eternity (cease to exist).

God Bless.

You said...……..
"Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell."

I don't think that is correct.

Everyone involved in the 2nd Death will be the wicked lost of all the ages and when they are cast into the Lake of Fire, THEY will then be believers in the Lord Jesus Christ.

The problem is that there is no escape, no advocate and no pardon.

Hell and Heaven are the same in that they both last eternally.
 
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eleos1954

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You said...……..
"Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell."

I don't think that is correct.

Everyone involved in the 2nd Death will be the wicked lost of all the ages and when they are cast into the Lake of Fire, THEY will then be believers in the Lord Jesus Christ.

The problem is that there is no escape, no advocate and no pardon.

Hell and Heaven are the same in that they both last eternally.

I don't believe in eternal torment in hell. A loving God does not torture people for eternity.

When Jesus returns the 1st resurrection happens (the saved) all go with Him to heaven.
After the 1,000 years, the 2nd resurrection happens (the lost) are totally destroyed never to exist again.

"Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell."

We do not receive immortality until Jesus returns. Everyone waits in the grave until He returns. Paul sums it up here:

1 Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.


Torment in Hell for eternity? ... No


Psalm 1:6 “But the way of the ungodly shall perish (singular)” (2nd death)


Psalm 37:20 “But the wicked shall perish… they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.” (consume - totally destroyed)

Perish (singular - not perishing ) suffer complete ruin or destruction.

Psalm 69:28 says that the wicked are “blotted out of the book of the living.” (they will not receive eternal life)


Ps. 34:16, 21 “evil brings death to the wicked.” (2nd death)

Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.” (self-explanatory)


Prov. 24:20 “the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.” (will not contune life)


Dan. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.” (no trace of the wicked totally gone)

Isa. 1:28, 30–31 “rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.” (consumed - totally destroyed)

Obadiah 1:16 It will be as if the evil “had never been.“ (non-existent)


Mal 4:1 “All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.” (they will be totally burned up - destroyed by fire)


Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

John 3:16 “…whosoever believeth in him should not perish (singular)” (2nd death)


Matthew 7:13: “broad is the road that leads to destruction“ (totally destroyed)


Philippians 3:19 “whose end is destruction…“ (destroyed)


2 Thessalonians 1:9 “who shall be punished with everlasting destruction …” (destroyed - never to live again)

1 Cor 3:17: “God will destroy that person”


2 Cor 2:15-16: “those that perish“ (2nd death)


Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death..“ (2nd death)


James 4:12a “There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.”


2 Peter 2:3: “Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” (the unsaved in the grave will face destruction) 2nd resurrection


Revelation 20:9

(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell.

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”

Death is Death ... cease to exist. The first death (earthly death) is temporal ... the 2nd death (of the lost) is final and for eternity (cease to exist).

Exist with God for eternity or not exist at all

We do not have a loving God who tortures people for eternity.
 
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Major1

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I don't believe in eternal torment in hell. A loving God does not torture people for eternity.

When Jesus returns the 1st resurrection happens (the saved) all go with Him to heaven.
After the 1,000 years, the 2nd resurrection happens (the lost) are totally destroyed never to exist again.

"Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell."

We do not receive immortality until Jesus returns. Everyone waits in the grave until He returns. Paul sums it up here:

1 Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.


Torment in Hell for eternity? ... No


Psalm 1:6 “But the way of the ungodly shall perish (singular)” (2nd death)


Psalm 37:20 “But the wicked shall perish… they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.” (consume - totally destroyed)

Perish (singular - not perishing ) suffer complete ruin or destruction.

Psalm 69:28 says that the wicked are “blotted out of the book of the living.” (they will not receive eternal life)


Ps. 34:16, 21 “evil brings death to the wicked.” (2nd death)

Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.” (self-explanatory)


Prov. 24:20 “the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.” (will not contune life)


Dan. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.” (no trace of the wicked totally gone)

Isa. 1:28, 30–31 “rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.” (consumed - totally destroyed)

Obadiah 1:16 It will be as if the evil “had never been.“ (non-existent)


Mal 4:1 “All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.” (they will be totally burned up - destroyed by fire)


Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

John 3:16 “…whosoever believeth in him should not perish (singular)” (2nd death)


Matthew 7:13: “broad is the road that leads to destruction“ (totally destroyed)


Philippians 3:19 “whose end is destruction…“ (destroyed)


2 Thessalonians 1:9 “who shall be punished with everlasting destruction …” (destroyed - never to live again)

1 Cor 3:17: “God will destroy that person”


2 Cor 2:15-16: “those that perish“ (2nd death)


Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death..“ (2nd death)


James 4:12a “There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.”


2 Peter 2:3: “Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” (the unsaved in the grave will face destruction) 2nd resurrection


Revelation 20:9

(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell.

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”

Death is Death ... cease to exist. The first death (earthly death) is temporal ... the 2nd death (of the lost) is final and for eternity (cease to exist).

Exist with God for eternity or not exist at all

We do not have a loving God who tortures people for eternity.

With respect to you, all of your response is all over the place and is hard to follow.

I am not going to take the time to explain every Scripture that you posted in order to validate your opinion of "Annialation of the Soul", but I will say that not a single Scripture supports your opinion.

The Scriptures teach us that the Spirit of man who is saved goes to be with the Lord and the body waits in the grave for the Resurrection.

The Scriptures also teach us that the wicked lost who made the choice for eternal torment will be in the Lake of Fire for all of eternity.

Does the second death mean annihilation? No. In the first 65 books of the Bible the biblical meaning of death is not annihilation but separation. So, all of a sudden, in the 66th book of the Bible, the word 'death' suddenly changes its meaning?

If 'death' means annihilation, how can there possibly be such a thing as 'the second annihilation'?

If 'the second death' is the ultimate punishment for sin and it means annihilation, and since Jesus bore the full penalty for sin in his death, then why was Jesus not annihilated?

If hell was only a figment of the imagination, Jesus would never have come to save us from it. He would never have warned us about it. He would never have been obedient unto death and allowed himself to descend into it for three days.

Soul annihilation is a false doctrine invented by men because they cannot countenance the idea that a holy and righteous God could possibly wreck such terrible punishment on unrepentant sinners which some are their loved ones.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 tells us that God 'will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people..."

The Greek word used here WAS NOT ANNIHILATION. There is a huge difference.
 
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eleos1954

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With respect to you, all of your response is all over the place and is hard to follow.

I am not going to take the time to explain every Scripture that you posted in order to validate your opinion of "Annialation of the Soul", but I will say that not a single Scripture supports your opinion.

The Scriptures teach us that the Spirit of man who is saved goes to be with the Lord and the body waits in the grave for the Resurrection.

The Scriptures also teach us that the wicked lost who made the choice for eternal torment will be in the Lake of Fire for all of eternity.

Does the second death mean annihilation? No. In the first 65 books of the Bible the biblical meaning of death is not annihilation but separation. So, all of a sudden, in the 66th book of the Bible, the word 'death' suddenly changes its meaning?

If 'death' means annihilation, how can there possibly be such a thing as 'the second annihilation'?

If 'the second death' is the ultimate punishment for sin and it means annihilation, and since Jesus bore the full penalty for sin in his death, then why was Jesus not annihilated?

If hell was only a figment of the imagination, Jesus would never have come to save us from it. He would never have warned us about it. He would never have been obedient unto death and allowed himself to descend into it for three days.

Soul annihilation is a false doctrine invented by men because they cannot countenance the idea that a holy and righteous God could possibly wreck such terrible punishment on unrepentant sinners which some are their loved ones.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 tells us that God 'will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people..."

The Greek word used here WAS NOT ANNIHILATION. There is a huge difference.

"If 'the second death' is the ultimate punishment for sin and it means annihilation, and since Jesus bore the full penalty for sin in his death, then why was Jesus not annihilated? "

Because Jesus was sinless (we are not) He did not suffer the 2nd death, He was resurrected (just like we will be one day). The shedding of His perfect blood satisfied as the wages of sin is death. His perfect blood shed defeated death (2nd death) Those in Christ will be presented though Him as sinless because He was sinless and thus we will not experience the 2nd death either.

2 Corinthians 5:21

Yes, "he who knew no sin was counted as sin in order that we might become the righteousness of God." So he knew no sin.

...
and when Gods plan is totally completed death will be no more.

Revelation 21:4

He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

Hell is the grave and all wait there until His return and then the 1st resurrection happens.

“The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:10).

“I turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who saw you. … You … shall be no more forever” (Ezekiel 28:18, 19).

The devil himself will be reduced to ashes as well ... and be no more.

"I am not going to take the time to explain every Scripture that you posted in order to validate your opinion of "Annialation of the Soul", but I will say that not a single Scripture supports your opinion."

I provided scripture ... yet you don't want to address it? ok LOL
 
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