You probably have noticed that I'm an atheist. It shouldn't be too much to understand that I'm not likely to accuse somebody I don't think exists of being evil. I may not be the smartest tool in the shed but I am not that stupid.
My problem is not with God. It's with people who will allow literally anything, excuse anything and quite often do anything, because they believe God has commanded it. That's what I have a problem with.
Not that there is any indication that God did command it. It appears to be the opinion of Jerimiah (and the psalm is 137, not 139). So a simple and entirely reasonable response would have been to say that the opinion of one man does not implicate God in such a depraved act. And it could be discounted. But you have decided that a depraved act, and there cannot be serious argument that it is not, is acceptable to you if you think it's acceptable to Him.
One could literally do whatever one wanted and simply say 'Hey, it's what God wanted me to do' and that would be what they would class as justification. And that's not a hypothetical scenario either. As you well know.
I agree with you that many people are willing to do violent things in the name of God. But someone claiming to do these acts in God's name is wrong: God can execute judgment as he sees fit, but we can't. Humans are very quick to even scores and get revenge and will use any justification for it. I would personally never condone that. At best they may be misguided or worse, they can purposely twist Scripture to justify their own personal agenda. As we can see with many atrocities that have been committed. If God truly decrees something I accept it and trust that it is just and right, because my belief is that God is always just and seeks the welfare of the universe (even if I don't always understand it ). That doesn't mean that I accept others who claim to be acting in the interest of God as being right.
The life and death of Christ issued a new covenant with man : it is the time of mercy. We will still be judged eternally for our sins if we don't accept his sacrifice, but the emphasis has shifted from judgment and law to grace. Any Christian today who would seek to promote their faith through violence is violating the Great Commission. That was Christ's commandment to his Disciples to spread the good news of his life and death to the entire world. He also commanded us to love our neighbor and turn the other cheek. He stated that he had fulfilled the law. One cannot use God's name to promote violence nor justify religious wars based on some instances of divine judgment in the Old Testament. Christ said he had given us two greater commandments: To love God with all our our heart and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Thus, I would condemn the acts of any Christians or church who used violence to spread their faith or justified things like slavery or oppression of women or minorities, etc. They are violating Christ's own commandments. They can't defend their actions by citing instances of judgment in the Old Testament, since Christ's new commandments supercede that.
As for the very controversial point about dashing children, I agree with you that an opinion of David or Jeremiah does not necessarily mean that God shares it. However if you read the entire Psalm you will understand the context of why this was said. This particular psalm is usually credited to being a psalm that Jeremiah wrote (although David expresses similar sentiments in many of the Psalms he wrote). Btw, thanks for pointing out that I had cited the wrong reference. I also mispoke when I said these were David's words : I had confused that passage with other similar statements that David did make. So thanks for clarifying that.
Jeremiah is describing the great suffering and destruction of Judah, and their captivity into Babylon. If you read the book of Jeremiah, he prophesied and had many visions from God about the impending destruction of Judah. God warned what would happen to the Jews if they did not repent. It is not that he commanded others to slaughter them ; rather that he removed his divine protection on the nation and allowed the surrounding savage nations to do what cruelty they delighted in. Cruelty that he was preventing until that point.
In that Psalm, he is complaining to God about the delight that the pagan nations of Edom and Babylon took in destroying the Jews. The Babylonians were vicious and raped, murdered the children, and put out the eyes of their captives, etc. All sorts of awful things and they took delight in cruelty. Jeremiah, who saw that these things would occur prophetically by God, said O Daughter of Babylon who art to be destroyed, Happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be that taketh and dashes thy little ones against the stones. Clearly, he is expressing his sense of justice and that these wicked nations deserved to be wiped out as punishment for their treatment of others. It wasn't a commandment to kill. I was also the one who took issue with another poster who claimed the Bible promoted all sorts of violence. I said he twisted and cherry picked. I also said that what was being expressed in those verses and in the other Psalms of David was sympathy for God when he destroys sinners. Btw, God loved David. He called him a man after his own heart and chose to descend from his lineage. Christ was the son of David. So clearly David understood and pleased God and had some idea of how God felt towards the wicked.
God did at times execute judgment on entire pagan nations and that did at times include the children. Also, he destroyed an entire city and its inhabitants with fire. It's not logical to claim that these judgments were the will and opinions of certain men and not God. David in many of his Psalms in quite graphic terms explains the judgment of God on the wicked. Read Psalm 2 and 3 as an example. There is even a reference to God breaking the teeth of the wicked. You cannot ignore many themes in the Old Testament: many Christians do this all the time in an attempt to make God more palatable to the non-Christians. It''s not accurate and its disingenous. We do no person any favors by pretending that one of the attributes of God, that he is a righteous judge , does not really exist. God is angry with the wicked daily, he reserves the right to end the life of anyone who rebels against him at any time and is just for doing so. The scriptures teach that explicitly and it is a recurring theme. It's not one man or a few men's opinions
It's actually a testament to his mercy and patience that he so rarely executes that judgment. And, not only is he patient, but he sent his own son to die on our behalf so that he could fairly and righteously uphold his laws while simultaneously providing us with a way to escape our justly deserved punishment.
That is my final post in this thread. I don't have any more points to make. I appreciate your responses and the time you put into sharing thoughtful objections.
