ESL in Asia

[Breetai]

I'm wondering who here at CF is either teaching ESL (EFL, etc.) or studying it, in Asia.

Dave's Cafe doesn't have a Christian section.

 

[Mirelys]

My ESL job lasted for two days...apparently I wasn't "fun" enough...

 

[Breetai]

Haha.

I know, I shouldn't laugh. I'm on my second job already.

The ESL industry in Korea is a bit of a joke. Not very many academies actually want teachers. They want real, live, English-speaking people who can entertain kids for a few hours. If they kids are happy, then the mothers will keep paying money to have you babysit (in English, of course).

 

[BeamMeUpScotty]

I teach at a university in Japan. I'm ending the third and final year of my contract at this school and I'll move to another one in April. After a six-month probationary period, I'll have tenure and won't have to do the job hunting again. Woot!

 

[Yusuphhai]

Ha. I am a student of ESL through web.As you know in Japanese and Korean there are some Chinese Characters ,I also like to add a little Chinese Characters(華&#25991 in English, that can fulfill a sentence as a kind of orient international language（東方國際文）, although my English is not very well.

This website I enjoy:
http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/

 

[Breetai]

I teach at a university in Japan. I'm ending the third and final year of my contract at this school and I'll move to another one in April. After a six-month probationary period, I'll have tenure and won't have to do the job hunting again. Woot!

That sounds great to me! What are your qualifications? I've heard that it's quite difficult to get a university position in Japan. In Korea, on the other hand, it's definetely possible to get into a university with only an undergraduate degree.

I'm thinking about heading to Japan in early 2007. Do you have any leads for me?

Ha. I am a student of ESL through web.As you know in Japanese and Korean there are some Chinese Characters ,I also like to add a little Chinese Characters(華&#25991 in English, that can fulfill a sentence as a kind of orient international language（東方國際文）, although my English is not very well.

This website I enjoy:
http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/

Actually, there aren't any Chinese characters in Korean (hangul 한글 ). It's a completely different writing system. Many of my students don't even remember 1-10 in Chinese characters! I'm trying to learn some Chinese characters in my free time, but I'm a bit lazy about it.

I think you're English is looking great, by the way! It's not perfect, but it's completely easy to understand. Good job. How comfortable are you at speaking English?

 

[Yusuphhai]

Ha, Breetai. Maybe you don' t believe, 1000 years ago Korea and Japan had no their own words( only had oral language). Their official documents were written in Chinese characters. Their intellectuals liked to learn Chinese culture, like Confucianism and Buddhism. Later Japanese and Korean spellings were invented, but they were used with Chinese characters together. In near age China declined and Western culture spread into East Asia. So now East Asia has diversified culture structure and form.(Korean native religion was Shamanism and Japanese was Shinto. )

Maybe now Korean youths don’t need learn Chinese much. But Chinese characters are still used in classical atmosphere. I know in some versions of Korean Bible there are Chinese characters in it. For an example, Holy Spirit in traditional Chinese is 聖靈[Sheng4 Ling2],in Korean Chinese is 神靈[Shen2 Ling2].Even in history China and Korea could be looked as one country.

By the way, I feel comfortable when using English, I can looked “English” as the most important international language and my own language.

 

[Breetai]

Yusuphhai, Hangul has replaced Chinese characters as a writing system here completely. It's been that way for a few hundred years now. Of course Chinese writing used to be used 500 years ago plus. The Japanese still use it alongside their kanas, but not in Korea. It's simply not used. That's a fact. Chinese writing hasn't been officially used here since 1446.

Classical literature sometimes still uses Chinese writing, that's true, but the majority of the population can't read it. It's similar to the use of Latin in Europe.

Even in history China and Korea could be looked as one country.

Oh wow. You would have nearly ever Korean arguing you here.

It's very true that Chinese culture and language has very much influenced Korea, but I would argue that Korea is still very distinct.

 

[Blessed-one]

i thought so, unlike Japanese's writings, Korean writing looks completely different from Chinese.

 

[Breetai]

Japan uses three different writing systems. Two of them are unique to Japan, and the other in tradional Chinese. The two unique Japanese scripts were both derived from Chinese. Korean writing is completely unique from everything.

Korean letters, in a sentence: 제이르믄 브리다이에요 (my name is Breetai)

Random Japanese katakana letters (I don't know how to type in Japanese, as I have no keyboard map!): ﾁｹﾘﾄﾉｼｷｸﾅｲﾈｿﾇｴｵﾔﾜ

Random Chinese characters （I don't know anything about this either!): 北京穆萨马毛

If you don't have the proper language packs installed, you won't be able to read these.

 

[Yusuphhai]

Hi, Breetai. As you said, although most of Chinese (China has more than 50 nations), Korean and Japanese look very alike, their languages are different systems. I am not a supporter of Chinese nationalism and China-Korea Union. I just ever saw a map which was brought by a Korean preacher in Beijing. China and Korea are painted in one same color, I think that can reflect some Korean have a kind of special feeling knot to China.(I have a love knot to Israel.)

Quite different from European Union, now not any two of countries or regions of East Asia (Chinese Mainland, Hong Kong, Macao, Taiwan, Mongolia, North Korea, South Korea, and Japan ) can be one real Union .

 

[Breetai]

Hi, Breetai. As you said, although most of Chinese (China has more than 50 nations), Korean and Japanese look very alike, their languages are different systems. I am not a supporter of Chinese nationalism and China-Korea Union. I just ever saw a map which was brought by a Korean preacher in Beijing. China and Korea are painted in one same color, I think that can reflect some Korean have a kind of special feeling knot to China.(I have a love knot to Israel.)

I definetely haven't seen many maps where China and Korea were the same colour here! I can tell you though, that Koreans really seem to feel closer to China than to Japan. They seem to have a like/dislike relationship with China overall.

Quite different from European Union, now any two of countries or regions of East Asia (Chinese Mainland, Hong Kong, Macao, Taiwan, Mongolia, North Korea, South Korea, and Japan ) can be one real Union .

I really can't see the Koreas joining either China, or especially Japan, anytime soon. I guess there could be some kind of trade union that could exist, but I don't think it would go much beyond that. Those countries are just too different.

 

[Yusuphhai]

Sorry,I mean:

Quite different from European Union, now not any two of countries or regions of East Asia (Chinese Mainland, Hong Kong, Macao, Taiwan, Mongolia, North Korea, South Korea, and Japan ) can be one real Union .

And later, I think real East Asia Union can only be realized in heaven.I agree with you,they are quite different. I can understand Korean like to be different from Chinese,I am not a Chinese(華人，Han Race) in general meaning too.

 

[Breetai]

Ahhhhhh. I see!

I didn't actually realize how different Asian cultures were from each other until I saw it myself. I don't know if it's really possible to appreciate how different they are without actually being here.

 

[Overtime_man]

Actually, there aren't any Chinese characters in Korean (hangul 한글 ). It's a completely different writing system.

Chinese characters are still used for writing names in Korean. I think this topic was covered in another thread here, but I'm too lazy to search for it.

 

[Overtime_man]

I I can tell you though, that Koreans really seem to feel closer to China than to Japan. They seem to have a like/dislike relationship with China overall.

Quite true, I think. It's strange though that many Japanese don't seem to reciprocate the same dislike toward Koreans. In fact, for the past couple of years Japan has been experiencing a "Korean boom" of sorts, with dozens of Korean dramas on TV, and Korean movies and musical acts doing quite well here. Even elderly women, who aren't generally noted as being fond of foreigners, come out in droves whenever a popular Korean soap star visits Tokyo. Strange! That said, Koreans (just like other foriengers) will still find it next to impossible to rent a decent apartment in Japan. Some things never change.

 

[Breetai]

Chinese characters are still used for writing names in Korean. I think this topic was covered in another thread here, but I'm too lazy to search for it.

It was, and I argued against it. Certainly they could be written in Chinese, but they rarely are. I've actually asked some of my students and co-workers if they knew their names in Chinese, and they didn't have a clue. I know more Chinese characters then some of them, and my skills are laughable.

Quite true, I think. It's strange though that many Japanese don't seem to reciprocate the same dislike toward Koreans.

I've found that to be true. I'd say it's because the Japanese have always been the warmongers, while the Koreans have always been the victims (they seem to love reminding everyone of that too... ). So, I don't think it's strange. I can totally understand why the Koreans generally have a hate-on for Japan, while Japan is quite fond of Korea.

In fact, for the past couple of years Japan has been experiencing a "Korean boom" of sorts, with dozens of Korean dramas on TV, and Korean movies and musical acts doing quite well here. Even elderly women, who aren't generally noted as being fond of foreigners, come out in droves whenever a popular Korean soap star visits Tokyo. Strange!

I've heard of that. I'd like to witness this first hand. In my previous four trips to Japan, I haven't come across this. Of course, it's either been pleasure of business, so I haven't paid any attention to pop-culture.

Maybe I'll be a celebrity of sorts (well, more so than I already am!!!) when people find out that I spend a year in Korea.

That said, Koreans (just like other foriengers) will still find it next to impossible to rent a decent apartment in Japan. Some things never change.

Good ol' xenophobia...

 

[BeamMeUpScotty]

That sounds great to me! What are your qualifications? I've heard that it's quite difficult to get a university position in Japan. In Korea, on the other hand, it's definetely possible to get into a university with only an undergraduate degree.

I'm thinking about heading to Japan in early 2007. Do you have any leads for me?

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier.

I have about 9 years (almost 5 at the university level) teaching experience and an MA in TESOL. It's actually not to difficult to get part time jobs at universities here. Actually, quite a few make a living supporting a family teaching at 2 or 3 (or more) universities part-time. Getting a full-time position is far more difficult and is often on a limited-term contract. Getting tenure is extremely difficult and rare.

Here's a website you may have already seen:

http://www.debito.org/

He has a "green" and "black" list of Japanese universities based on their hiring practices and other factors that affect foreign faculty. He also has a good section on questions to ask if you are applying to a Japanese university--though tread with care if you actually get an interview. This section also includes a good, if biased, review of the professorial system in Japan.

That said, Koreans (just like other foriengers) will still find it next to impossible to rent a decent apartment in Japan. Some things never change.

I can't speak for Koreans or any other nationality. As a white European male, I know I'm in a luckier position than many. Still, I have to disagree with this statement. While there is racism here in general, and in real estate specifically, it is not impossible to get a decent apartment. Expensive, yes. But not impossible. The expenses are also there for Japanese as well, although there may be some costs which make the same apartment slightly more expensive for the foreigner in the beginning.

I have just recently rented a new apartment and I'm psyched. Yes, while searching I was denied being able to see a couple of apartments because the landlord doesn't rent to foreigners. Was I ticked off? Extremely. Was there anything I could do about it? Not really, unless I wanted to get into a long and expensive legal battle for an apartment I probably wasn't going to rent anyway.

Anyway, that's my two yen.

 

[Overtime_man]

It was, and I argued against it. Certainly they could be written in Chinese, but they rarely are. I've actually asked some of my students and co-workers if they knew their names in Chinese, and they didn't have a clue. I know more Chinese characters then some of them, and my skills are laughable.

How old are your students? All of the Koreans I've ever met have no problem writing their names in Chinese characters.

 

[Overtime_man]

I can't speak for Koreans or any other nationality. As a white European male, I know I'm in a luckier position than many. Still, I have to disagree with this statement. While there is racism here in general, and in real estate specifically, it is not impossible to get a decent apartment. Expensive, yes. But not impossible. The expenses are also there for Japanese as well, although there may be some costs which make the same apartment slightly more expensive for the foreigner in the beginning.

I have just recently rented a new apartment and I'm psyched. Yes, while searching I was denied being able to see a couple of apartments because the landlord doesn't rent to foreigners. Was I ticked off? Extremely. Was there anything I could do about it? Not really, unless I wanted to get into a long and expensive legal battle for an apartment I probably wasn't going to rent anyway.

Anyway, that's my two yen.

If you were only denied being able to view "a couple" of apartments, you definitely got lucky. I've been through the house search three times, and have been turned down up front for being a foreigner on at least 20 - 30 occasions...it happened so often, I've actually lost count. One real estate company that I dealt with actually told me that searching in their particular area would be a waste of time because in their experience they had never found a landlord who would rent to a non-Japanese. At least they were honest. At another location (of the same chain of real estate company) I was made to jump through all the hoops, assured that my being a foreinger wouldn't be a problem, only to get a phone call from them the next day saying that the landlord was worried about what the other tenants would think if he let a gaijin into the complex, etc. etc. etc.

I finally did find a real estate agent who did his best to come up with a couple of places that would permit non-Japanese, so I was thankful for his efforts. His explanation was that most landlords are older men, and thus have a lot of reservations about dealing with foreigners. He also mentioned that the fact that I'm white and from North America was a big plus as that would at least open a few doors. Apparently the week before I was there, he had a Chinese client who was turned down for every place he applied to; the guy spent like 5 or 6 full days at the office searching for a place, any place, that would let him in.

I will say that in Japan, like everywhere else, money does buy respect. My company did fairly well last year, so my wife and I recently moved. This time we had significantly more money to spend, and consequently had a much easier time finding a place.