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Thanks I will review this today.... let me ask this... antichrist= a person or a system? Both or just one?honorthesabbath said:Stormy--look carefully at 2THess. Paul uses the very special term here--"the son of perdition". Only one other time is that term used. Jesus used it in reference to Judas, His BETRAYER. Now when John was writing the book of Revelation--that particular son of perdition's office hadn't even come yet. THe papacy hadn't even been born yet!! So no--the "criteria" had NOT been met then either. Mix that with all the other warning and signs in scripture--and ONLY our day came match them. They are too numerous for me to type here and now--but go over them again for yourself. You'll see what I am talking about.
Our biggest problem comes from assuming that everything Paul wrote had to be accurate. If we do that then we seem to solve one problem, but in the process we create another one that is even more serious. Those who believe that Jesus could not have come before 2005 have to ignore what Jesus Himself said to His disciples.StormyOne said:Honor,
Thanks again for the texts. I don't mind being wrong, everyday is an opportunity to learn.
I submit for your consideration this text:
When reading the letters to the churches of Asia Minor it is clear that a falling away from the church had begun, so my point is while Paul may have said it, by the time John is writing the churches those two criteria had been met....
StormyOne said:Thanks I will review this today.... let me ask this... antichrist= a person or a system? Both or just one?
Ok.... but.... well what's the person without the system? The person represents a system like the beasts in Revelation represent nations.... that's what I was getting at... So then couldn't it be the system as well as "the person?"honorthesabbath said:It is the person WITHIN the system. The "office" of that person!!
StormyOne said:Ok.... but.... well what's the person without the system? The person represents a system like the beasts in Revelation represent nations.... that's what I was getting at... So then couldn't it be the system as well as "the person?"
WE know it can't be the system because systems are not confused. But the Bible speaks against confusion -- Babylon. However, we have spent our time developing a strategy against error, which implies that we know the truth. It is no wonder we find ourselves with our backs against the wall.StormyOne said:Ok.... but.... well what's the person without the system? The person represents a system like the beasts in Revelation represent nations.... that's what I was getting at... So then couldn't it be the system as well as "the person?"
Of course I have... several times... You may think my questions are pointless, but here is what I am suggesting. Sometimes we focused on an idea that we miss what is really happening. We have not learned the lesson of ancient Israel who missed the Messiah in their midst.... The antichrist represents a system... and let's break it down, anything that attempts to replace Christ is anti-christ.honorthesabbath said:Stormy--it's that "massive system of deception" that is the culmination of centuries from Babylon to the present day. Have you ever read the Great Controversy"??
StormyOne said:Of course I have... several times... You may think my questions are pointless, but here is what I am suggesting. Sometimes we focused on an idea that we miss what is really happening. We have not learned the lesson of ancient Israel who missed the Messiah in their midst.... The antichrist represents a system... and let's break it down, anything that attempts to replace Christ is anti-christ.
We have to start with what Christ represents, what is His position before we can adequately define what the antichrist seeks to do. Because we have not completely explored what Christ is, we have focused on one person and and the church that that person heads, ignoring the "system" that attempts to replace Christ and what He means...
If the mark of the beast involves worship on the first day of the week then God's seal is associated with the opposite of the mark of the beast.
Wouldn't that then suggest that God's seal is associated with worship also, that being worship on the 7th day of the week.
Now I know in the New Testament it talks of the Holy Spirit and the sealing.
This is not the sealing that "the seal of God" refers to in Revelation.
This seal in Revelation has to do with worship as does the mark of the beast has to do with worship.
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