-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
eschatology
- Thread starter jonno
- Start date
honorthesabbath said:
A few years back we had a minister who gave us the truth every second week, you see he only preached at our church every second week as he had another church to look after.
They were good days, we did not know how well off we were until he retired.
He retired early so he could go into full time evangelism. Where he went they gave three churches to look after, he went from 2 to 3 and into retirement.
Since then he has been to India at least 3 times and other places as well. So much for retirement, but that is what he likes.
It was like having Kenneth Cox every second week at Church, I tell you he was a real SDA minister. I am certainly not in that class and probably never will be.
Upvote
0
StormyOne said:
One is either going to have the testimony of Christ "in them" or they aren't.
It is NOT a visual mark...it's not going to be either a "pitchfork" or "cross" etched in ones literal forehead.
Over the years, growing up amidst all of the screeching about Hellfire and Brimstone, I was taught, and then simply heard people talking about WHAT the mark of the beast was going to be...most people said it would be the numbers "666" etched somewhere on the body...then, as the computer age came on us, it would be a "chip" imbedded under the skin somewhere. Forgive me for a small chuckle, it is not AT those who are misled or lost, it is more as an "oh my goodness, the things that I used to believe".
In turning now, to those lovely OSAS christians who have accused me of being a "legalist" because I choose to obey God's law...because I not only wanted the savior BUT the LORD as well, I have to wonder if they ever stop to think about what the "seal of God" truly is. Yes, the Holy Spirit dwelling within does the "sealing"...but in what way(s) will that be evident when the time comes? Will there be a neon lit arrow underneath "H.S. lives here" pointing down at our heads? Will there be a halo that only God can see? Ridiculous? Funny (at least I would have hoped for a chuckle at that silliness)? Sure it is. What will make it evident is our character, in how we live our lives, treat others, and (now, hold on to your hats you OSAS christians) in our WORKS. The formula is REPENTENCE, BELIEF, SALVATION = WORKS. Not the other way around. If you are a saved Christian, a true believer in the Lord Jesus Christ and the sacrifice He gave for you, if you accept His love, His mercy, His (undeserved) grace, His FREE gift...His living within you, your "picking up your mat and following Him" will become NATURALLY apparent in your works. It will show in your character, and in the beam that eminates from the smile on your face.
I don't have to worry about "taking the mark of the beast", because I already have the "Seal of God".
Upvote
0
Very true Sassy.... it is what we are that shows whose we are... WHAT we are is determined not just by a day we observe, for ancient Israel had the sabbath and failed to recognize who Jesus was, but also what is IN us... That is why the bible says in Col 1:27 To whom God was pleased to give knowledge of the wealth of the glory of this secret among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
It is Him in us.... Now here is an uncomfortable secret... most people, christians and adventists alike, choose to focus on outward compliance of various rules because in so doing they don't have to deal with the fact that the Holy Spirit is trying to put Christ IN us. We resist that process...
If I tell you that the mark of a true christian is a day of worship, then I don't have to deal with the fact that true christians have to be put to death daily via the Holy Spirit. All I have to focus on is worshipping on the "right" day. I don't have to allow the Holy Spirit to help me to Love my enemies and do good to those that use me...
God wants to change us from the inside out... (Let this mind be in you....) Unfortunately we want to change people from the outside, externally to internally....When He is in us... when we cooperate with that process we will be sealed.... that is what I have learned from my studying...
It is Him in us.... Now here is an uncomfortable secret... most people, christians and adventists alike, choose to focus on outward compliance of various rules because in so doing they don't have to deal with the fact that the Holy Spirit is trying to put Christ IN us. We resist that process...
If I tell you that the mark of a true christian is a day of worship, then I don't have to deal with the fact that true christians have to be put to death daily via the Holy Spirit. All I have to focus on is worshipping on the "right" day. I don't have to allow the Holy Spirit to help me to Love my enemies and do good to those that use me...
God wants to change us from the inside out... (Let this mind be in you....) Unfortunately we want to change people from the outside, externally to internally....When He is in us... when we cooperate with that process we will be sealed.... that is what I have learned from my studying...
Upvote
0
StormyOne said:
I keep the Sabbath because I love God. I don't do it simply because it's the 4th commandment, though that's important enough reason...I do it because I love my Lord and Savior SOOOOO much that I JOYFULLY "picked up my mat and followed Him". It is a pleasure to keep His commandments...not a burden.
I wish I could get those who accuse me of being a "legalist" to see the joy in my heart, the peace and the love. They spit "legalist" from their mouth like it's some obscenity. They simply do not understand....and that is so sad to me.
What they don't realize is that I KNOW keeping His commandments alone will not save me, or buy me a ticket to heaven. I simply keep them out of love...and respect for my gracious Lord and Savior who suffered so horribly to pay the debt of the world's sin. I keep them out of love for the gift He gave me...the grace and mercy He bestows upon this unworthy servant.
Upvote
0
honorthesabbath
Senior Veteran
- Aug 10, 2005
- 4,067
- 78
- 76
- Faith
- SDA
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Constitution
-BC- Ev
-TI- Evangelism
-CN- 8
-CT- Preaching the Distinctive Truths
-PR- 02
-PG- 235
-TEXT-
<SB When Seal of God Is Refused. <EB--If the light of truth
has been presented to you, revealing the Sabbath of
the fourth commandment, and showing that there is
no foundation in the Word of God for Sunday observance,
and yet you still cling to the false sabbath,
refusing to keep holy the Sabbath which God calls "My
holy day," you receive the mark of the beast. When
does this take place? When you obey the decree that
commands you to cease from labor on Sunday and
worship God, while you know that there is not a word
in the Bible showing Sunday to be other than a
common working day, you consent to receive the mark of
the beast, and refuse the seal of God.--<SI Review and
Herald, <EI July 13, 1897.
-TI- Evangelism
-CN- 8
-CT- Preaching the Distinctive Truths
-PR- 02
-PG- 235
-TEXT-
<SB When Seal of God Is Refused. <EB--If the light of truth
has been presented to you, revealing the Sabbath of
the fourth commandment, and showing that there is
no foundation in the Word of God for Sunday observance,
and yet you still cling to the false sabbath,
refusing to keep holy the Sabbath which God calls "My
holy day," you receive the mark of the beast. When
does this take place? When you obey the decree that
commands you to cease from labor on Sunday and
worship God, while you know that there is not a word
in the Bible showing Sunday to be other than a
common working day, you consent to receive the mark of
the beast, and refuse the seal of God.--<SI Review and
Herald, <EI July 13, 1897.
Upvote
0
honorthesabbath said:
Absolutely. If one is presented with the truth, as in the case of the Sabbath, and they choose to disobey God and ignore His 4th commandment that would be a mark of the beast. By refusing to obey God's law, one would take on the character of Satan....the mark of the beast.
Upvote
0
"Satan is now using every device in this sealing time, to keep the minds of God's people from the present, sealing truth; and to cause them to waver. I saw a covering that God was drawing over his people, to protect them in the time of trouble; and every soul that was decided on the truth, and was pure in heart, was to be covered with the covering of Almighty God." (The Present Truth, August 1, 1849)
The angels are holding the winds. It is God that restrains the powers. The angels have not let go, for the saints are not all sealed. The time of trouble has commenced. It has begun. The reason why the four winds are not let go, is because the saints are not all sealed. It [the trouble] is on the increase more and more; that trouble will never end until the earth is rid of the wicked. Why, they [the winds] are just ready to blow. There is a check put on because the saints are not all sealed." (A Seal of the Living God, pp. 25,26)(A Seal of the Living God, published in 1849, Joseph Bates quoting a vision of EGW)
However this was also written about the sealing....
When the final test shall be brought to bear upon men, then the line of distinction will be drawn between those who serve God and those who serve Him not. While the observance of the false Sabbath in compliance with the law of the state, contrary to the fourth commandment, will be an avowal of allegiance to a power that is in opposition to God, the keeping of the true Sabbath, in obedience to God's law, is an evidence of loyalty to the Creator. While one class, by accepting the sign of submission to earthly powers, receive the mark of the beast, the other choosing the token of allegiance to divine authority, receive the seal of God. (Great Controversy, p. 605)
An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received "the seal of the living God." Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. (Great Controversy, p. 614)
so when was/is the sealing based on her early vision or later writings? Just something to think about.....
The angels are holding the winds. It is God that restrains the powers. The angels have not let go, for the saints are not all sealed. The time of trouble has commenced. It has begun. The reason why the four winds are not let go, is because the saints are not all sealed. It [the trouble] is on the increase more and more; that trouble will never end until the earth is rid of the wicked. Why, they [the winds] are just ready to blow. There is a check put on because the saints are not all sealed." (A Seal of the Living God, pp. 25,26)(A Seal of the Living God, published in 1849, Joseph Bates quoting a vision of EGW)
However this was also written about the sealing....
When the final test shall be brought to bear upon men, then the line of distinction will be drawn between those who serve God and those who serve Him not. While the observance of the false Sabbath in compliance with the law of the state, contrary to the fourth commandment, will be an avowal of allegiance to a power that is in opposition to God, the keeping of the true Sabbath, in obedience to God's law, is an evidence of loyalty to the Creator. While one class, by accepting the sign of submission to earthly powers, receive the mark of the beast, the other choosing the token of allegiance to divine authority, receive the seal of God. (Great Controversy, p. 605)
An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received "the seal of the living God." Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. (Great Controversy, p. 614)
so when was/is the sealing based on her early vision or later writings? Just something to think about.....
Upvote
0
PaleHorse
Veteran
- Jun 1, 2005
- 1,405
- 32
- 56
- Faith
- SDA
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Constitution
Maybe I'm missing what you are asking about but I see no discrepency/contradiction between her early visions and later writings. The process of sealing had already begun (as per The Present Truth) but has not yet ended (as per Great Controversy). Are you asking when will the time of sealing end?
Upvote
0
T
TrustAndObey
Guest
I'm going to mess this story up and forget parts of it, I just know it, but I will share it as best as I remember it.
True Story:
During the days of slavery, a young black man was to be sold to the highest bidder one summer night. He was furious and screaming the entire time. "NO ONE CAN OWN ME, I AM A PERSON AND I AM NOT A PIECE OF GOODS TO BE BOUGHT OR SOLD! I WILL BE NO MAN'S SLAVE! I WILL NOT BE A SLAVE!"
There were many men there and talk started circulating about taking him outside and just hanging him because it would be very difficult to "tame" him.
A few minutes later a farmer stood up and bid on the young man, and he won very quickly due to no one else bidding.
On the way home the young man yelled the entire time "YOU MAY HAVE PAID MONEY FOR ME BUT I WILL NEVER WORK FOR YOU! YOU DO NOT OWN ME! GOD ALONE OWNS ME!"
Once they got to the farmhouse the farmer got out of the wagon and quietly said "I bought you so I could set you free. You are free to go."
The young man threw himself at the farmer's feet and said "Master! I will stay here forever if you want me to. You do not own me, but I want to thank you by serving you."
The young man stayed with the farmer until his death, knowing that he was free to leave at any time.
_______________________________________________________________
Christ bought and paid for us. Do we serve Him for selfish reasons, or do we serve Him to thank Him for His sacrifice and setting us free?!!!!
True Story:
During the days of slavery, a young black man was to be sold to the highest bidder one summer night. He was furious and screaming the entire time. "NO ONE CAN OWN ME, I AM A PERSON AND I AM NOT A PIECE OF GOODS TO BE BOUGHT OR SOLD! I WILL BE NO MAN'S SLAVE! I WILL NOT BE A SLAVE!"
There were many men there and talk started circulating about taking him outside and just hanging him because it would be very difficult to "tame" him.
A few minutes later a farmer stood up and bid on the young man, and he won very quickly due to no one else bidding.
On the way home the young man yelled the entire time "YOU MAY HAVE PAID MONEY FOR ME BUT I WILL NEVER WORK FOR YOU! YOU DO NOT OWN ME! GOD ALONE OWNS ME!"
Once they got to the farmhouse the farmer got out of the wagon and quietly said "I bought you so I could set you free. You are free to go."
The young man threw himself at the farmer's feet and said "Master! I will stay here forever if you want me to. You do not own me, but I want to thank you by serving you."
The young man stayed with the farmer until his death, knowing that he was free to leave at any time.
_______________________________________________________________
Christ bought and paid for us. Do we serve Him for selfish reasons, or do we serve Him to thank Him for His sacrifice and setting us free?!!!!
Upvote
0
PaleHorse said:
I included that particular quote because she indicated in 1849 that the Time of Trouble had already started. We believe that when the time of trouble starts, some significant events have been finished.
Upvote
0
Hello again
The past few days has been rather interesting for me. i enjoyed reading views form "real" and maybe "not so real" Seventh Day Adventists as I presume Cliff2 so subtlely implied.
However I am amazed that the crux of the initial question that I posed on my introduction to this wonderful forum has really not been answered.
Allow me to repeat the question.
If as you teach and believe, that our Lord and Saviour could visibly return this very moment, how does this event impact your rather dogmatic prophecy concerning the future enforcing of Sunday worship and thereby taking your interpretation of the '
'mark of the beast'.
I have much more to comment on and question following the interesting reading your comments have made, but this question suffices for now.
God bless
Jonno
The past few days has been rather interesting for me. i enjoyed reading views form "real" and maybe "not so real" Seventh Day Adventists as I presume Cliff2 so subtlely implied.
However I am amazed that the crux of the initial question that I posed on my introduction to this wonderful forum has really not been answered.
Allow me to repeat the question.
If as you teach and believe, that our Lord and Saviour could visibly return this very moment, how does this event impact your rather dogmatic prophecy concerning the future enforcing of Sunday worship and thereby taking your interpretation of the '
'mark of the beast'.
I have much more to comment on and question following the interesting reading your comments have made, but this question suffices for now.
God bless
Jonno
Upvote
0
T
TrustAndObey
Guest
jonno said:
I think everyone here was making an effort to inform you that we do not think the mark of the beast is merely Sunday observance.
Most Adventists agree that when the Sunday law is enforced, it will be very quick. We could wake up and find out some very old laws on the books were put back into effect. Most states have "blue laws" already in the books. All it takes is someone giving their stamp of approval.
If people are waiting on the Sunday laws to then "convert" (i.e. see if the SOP was correct about such laws, etc), it will be too late.
Once those laws hit, everything will happen VERY QUICKLY and we must be prepared. But even now Christians are being asked to choose: the law of God or the law of the land?!
It's too early in the morning for me to be typing. LOL
Upvote
0
If we are in Christ we don't have to worry about any laws that any government may pass... or may not pass... for the believer and follower of Christ the focus/emphasis is always on Him.... not other events.... A page from Daniel's experience as a captive can be an object lesson for us today....Daniel communicated with God, when they plotted against him, he continued to pray, when thrown in the den of lions, he communicated with his God.....
Isa 26:3 You will keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on You; because he trusts in You.
Phi 4:7 And the peace of God which passes all understanding shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Isa 26:3 You will keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on You; because he trusts in You.
Phi 4:7 And the peace of God which passes all understanding shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Upvote
0
T
TrustAndObey
Guest
BLUE LAWS
State and local regulations banning various activities on Sundays are called "blue laws." The origin of the term is uncertain. It has been said variously to have originated in the color of the paper on which a code of laws for the early New Haven, Connecticut, colony was printed or to have derived from the concept of being "true blue" to the law. Whatever the origin, these measures, which are based on the biblical injunction against working on the Sabbath, have been traced back to fourth-century Rome, when Constantine I, the first Christian emperor, commanded all citizens, except farmers, to rest on Sunday. The first blue law in America was enacted in the Virginia colony in the early 1600s and required church attendance.
About three-fourths of the states still carry on their books laws imposing some kind of Sunday restriction on such activities as retail sales, general labor, liquor sales, boxing, hunting, or barbering, as well as polo, cockfighting, or clam digging. These laws have been challenged in federal courts as a violation of the Sherman Anti-trust Act and the First Amendment guarantee of freedom of religion. The Supreme Court has upheld them, starting with McGowan v. Maryland (1961), ruling that though the laws originated for religious reasons, the state has a right to set aside a day of rest for the well-being of its citizens.
Nevertheless, Sunday blue laws have declined since the 1960s. A number of states have repealed them, and many municipalities have long ignored those still on their books, simply choosing not to enforce them. (YET)!
http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/rcah/html/ah_011100_bluelaws.htm
It's already been ascertained that they have the "right" to tell us when to worship and cease from all labor. It's just a matter of time before they enforce these laws and all states follow suit.
State and local regulations banning various activities on Sundays are called "blue laws." The origin of the term is uncertain. It has been said variously to have originated in the color of the paper on which a code of laws for the early New Haven, Connecticut, colony was printed or to have derived from the concept of being "true blue" to the law. Whatever the origin, these measures, which are based on the biblical injunction against working on the Sabbath, have been traced back to fourth-century Rome, when Constantine I, the first Christian emperor, commanded all citizens, except farmers, to rest on Sunday. The first blue law in America was enacted in the Virginia colony in the early 1600s and required church attendance.
About three-fourths of the states still carry on their books laws imposing some kind of Sunday restriction on such activities as retail sales, general labor, liquor sales, boxing, hunting, or barbering, as well as polo, cockfighting, or clam digging. These laws have been challenged in federal courts as a violation of the Sherman Anti-trust Act and the First Amendment guarantee of freedom of religion. The Supreme Court has upheld them, starting with McGowan v. Maryland (1961), ruling that though the laws originated for religious reasons, the state has a right to set aside a day of rest for the well-being of its citizens.
Nevertheless, Sunday blue laws have declined since the 1960s. A number of states have repealed them, and many municipalities have long ignored those still on their books, simply choosing not to enforce them. (YET)!
http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/rcah/html/ah_011100_bluelaws.htm
It's already been ascertained that they have the "right" to tell us when to worship and cease from all labor. It's just a matter of time before they enforce these laws and all states follow suit.
Upvote
0
TrustAndObey said:
With all due respect and love, I still dont think you're answering my question.
Upvote
0
jonno said:
Let me answer if I may. If we believe that Christ could return at any moment, then our eschatology beliefs may be wrong..... Clearly it doesn't have to unfold the way we believe, and there is no guarantee that it will just because we say it will....
Ancient Israel developed some beliefs about the Messiah and what He would be like when He arrived, yet they missed Him when he came.... maybe there is a lesson in there somewhere for us.....
Upvote
0
