eschatology

[statrei]

Click here for info on the Seal of God

"In this sense the Sabbath of the fourth commandment is the seal of the law of God

How do you go from the seal of the law of God to the seal of God?

 

[honorthesabbath]

Some say also that "Oh God is NOT particular". Really? Didn't this whole sin thing begain because God was particular about a TREE????

 

[statrei]

Some say also that "Oh God is NOT particular". Really? Didn't this whole sin thing begain because God was particular about a TREE????

I think you ought to be careful how you bring this "God is particular" concept into this discussion. It can rear back and sting you. When you are taught by people whose only concern is to prove a point rather than to discover truth you usually don't get all the information.

 

[Cliff2]

It's absolutely all about God, amen. But I have to ask, can one truly worship Him when they aren't worshipping Him the way He commanded them to? He commanded us to rest and give him one full day of our week, the day He calls HIS holy day.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say "God doesn't care what day we worship Him on, as long as we worship Him!" The first thing I point out is that we're to worship Him EVERY day, but we are commanded to rest and keep the seventh day holy. And if it's true that He doesn't care "which" day we rest on or keep holy, why did He command a specific day in the first place?

I don't think a lot of people realize what it means to have a Lord. The Bible refers to a Lord as a boss, basically. Your Master. He calls the shots and we are to obey (and we all know what happened to those in the BIble that didn't obey). If your boss told you to be somewhere for a meeting on Tuesday, you certainly wouldn't disregard that and try to show up on Wednesday, right?

Here's a couple of good verses:

Ecclesiastes 12:13 - Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Job 28:28 - And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the LORD, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Psalms 111:10 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Proverbs 1:7 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 1:29 - For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

There are too many verses like these to post. We have a loving, patient God but He is our Master and we are to do His will, not our own. I fear His wrath and I want to please Him, not myself.

In short, to worship Him is to obey Him. There is a lot of love in His commandments, and just imagine this planet if everyone obeyed them.

1 John 5:2 - By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 John 2:4 - He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (ouch, really strong words there).

I also hear a lot of people say it's impossible to keep the commandments. Without Christ, you can't. (Although I have to say, the Sabbath commandment is an easy one to keep and it's quite a blessing). The beauty of being a Christian is you can stumble, but Christ will always pick you up.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

God told us the seventh day is a day to remember creation and a sign between Him and HIS people. Sin is breaking God's law. Why break His commandment to rest and spend time with Him? I just don't get it I guess.

Hebrews 5:9 - And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

Well said.

 

[PaleHorse]

Some say also that "Oh God is NOT particular". Really? Didn't this whole sin thing begain because God was particular about a TREE????

I agree, God is very particular and there are many events in the Bible that bear this out.
The exacting dimensions He gave for the construction of the ark of the covenant, the tabernacle, Noah's ark, etc...not to mention the details of our own creation (just look at how precise the construction of the eye is).

 

[honorthesabbath]

I agree, God is very particular and there are many events in the Bible that bear this out.
The exacting dimensions He gave for the construction of the ark of the covenant, the tabernacle, Noah's ark, etc...not to mention the details of our own creation (just look at how precise the construction of the eye is).

Oh amen Pale--God IS a perfectionist indeed!! And aren't we glad that He is!!

Ps 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
I love how that text ends--"and that my soul knoweth RIGHT WELL!!! Maybe some do not see the perfectionist in the Creator, but I sure do--and apparently so did David. As a matter of fact--ALL of God's true children are amazed at His wonders!! I for one cannot look at a weed--that I don't marvel at it's intricacise (sp) !! Yes--God IS particular Pale--in EVERY aspect of His doings!!!

 

[smooze]

We until we went and screwed it all up. How many chances do we get? I hope this last time is the LAST Amen. Oh blubber im fat.

 

[StormyOne]

If the mark of the beast involves worship on the first day of the week then God's seal is associated with the opposite of the mark of the beast.

Wouldn't that then suggest that God's seal is associated with worship also, that being worship on the 7th day of the week.

Now I know in the New Testament it talks of the Holy Spirit and the sealing.

This is not the sealing that "the seal of God" refers to in Revelation.

This seal in Revelation has to do with worship as does the mark of the beast has to do with worship.

It is a suggestion to some. However if the seal is invisible, then the mark is invisible. I think worship is a misdirection from the standpoint that we can worship privately. If we remember that the early church didn't even meet in churches, they met in homes, even while enduring persecution.

My studies have led me to the following conclusion. If the seal of God is Christ's character and mindset imprinted in the believer, then the Mark of the Beast must be the character and mindset of the beast imprinted on people or organizations.

So then, are believers in their walk becoming more like Christ? Or are they less like Him? Is the church becoming more like Christ or less like Him?

If they are becoming less like Him, then they are becoming more like the beast. The bible gives us clear answers to what Christ is like.... Matt 5, especially the last part tells us the values of His kingdom... The beast which is really a proxy for Satan hold a completely different set of values.

One example. The bible says that Christ HUMBLED Himself. So one of the characteristics of Christ, His kingdom, and His followers is humility. The opposite of humility is self-glorification. One of the characteristics of Satan, his kingdom, and those who knowingly or unknowingly follow him would be self-glorification, i.e. look at me, look at what I can do, me, me, me.... See the difference? So then if a person never worshipped on any day it would be clear by their life who they were "worshipping," who they were following, who they were loyal to.....

 

[SassySDA]

Rightly or wrongly, I only see "worshipping on Sunday" as a "mark of the beast" if the worshipper KNOWS that in order to worship the living God, they are to observe the Sabbath, and CHOOSE TO IGNORE that commandment. That would definitely be a sign, in my mind (no pun intended) of the "side" that they have chosen.

Especially after the Sunday Law is enacted. Because, in order to take on the mark of the beast, one HAS to be aware that that is what they are doing, it has to be by THEIR choice. Therefore, if the law says, "You MUST go to church and worship God only on Sunday" and I know, from scripture and His decalogue that the TRUE "God's Holy Day", "His day of rest and worship" is the Sabbath, which is SATURDAY, but I choose to disobey God and follow the law (tradition) of men, then I have made my choice, brothers and sisters, and it was the WRONG one.

May God be ever with us as the time of His return draws nigh...the waters will DEFINITELY be rough, but with Him at the helm, we will prevail. As the end approaches us, bearing down on us with speed we can't even imagine, the study of His word, the knowledge we attain from the bible will be most essential to seeing us through. For without it, we wouldn't be able to see the false prophets...those who have no "light", for they are here, my brethren and in tremendous number.

People can pick our church apart all they want, they can tear at her foundation with everything thing negative to say they can find, and she will stand...oh yes, she WILL stand.

Bear in mind, that no matter how much she is torn at, and ridiculed, called a cult even, that that makes absolutely no sense, and anyone with a brain would know that, even those doing the name calling.

The Seventh-day Adventist church teaches biblical salvation, the same as all of the others do. We teach all about Jesus Christ, from his birth, through his ministry, to his horrible death on Calvary. We teach how that death atoned for ALL OF OUR SINS, and that all we have to do to be saved is believe on Him, on how He died, but more importantly that He rose again in 3 days. That His death covered us with His righteousness, a righteousness that alone, we would never be able to have on our own. We know that he stands in that sanctuary on high, intercessing for us with the Father. We longingly await His return for us, and we weep for those who are still lost, and who we so desperately want to reach before it is too late. Now, does THAT sound like the teachings of a cult?

Here are some of the falsehoods that some believe about our church:

1. You have to be a vegetarian. NO, you do NOT have to be a vegetarian.
we believe that it is the healthiest way to eat and it's encouraged but not forced.

2. You MUST believe Ellen White was a prophetess, a messenger of God.
NO, you do NOT have to believe that, it is not a requirement for membership. I
was left to make up my own mind about Ellen White, and I have talked to many
others who have told me the same. I believe she was a messenger of God, but I
came to that conclusion on my own. I can't read her books fast enough.

3. You have to believe that the Archangel Michael and Jesus are the same people.
NO, you do NOT have to believe that in order to be a member of our church.

4. SDA's believe THEY are God's REMNANT church, and that they are the only ones
who will ascend to Jesus when He returns. NO, we do NOT believe that we are
the only ones who will ascend to Jesus when He returns. We DO believe that we
are PART of God's remnant church, but we know that God's remnant people are
scattered over the 4 corners of this earth. We want nothing more than for EVERY
one of God's children to be His remnant.

Seeing as I am still an infant in my faith, if anyone can think of any other "falsehoods" that people have been told and believe to be true about our church, please share them.

We are ALL God's children, and we need to start LOVING one another and HELPING one another, and stop fighting with and against one another.

Statrei, I have started to be able to read what you are saying better, because I have learned your style, a style that I grew used to with that history teacher I mentioned. It took me a long time to pick up on what he was doing. His style of communicating FORCED us to use our heads, to THINK. Most often we THOUGHT we knew what he was saying, when we really didn't.

I've seen that going on here in this forum for quite awhile now. It's causing a lot of problems, brother, and I am asking nicely, for you to simply "spit out" in "plain english" your thoughts and feelings on subject matters. You also appear to have the mindset that SDA's won't think outside of the box...maybe that has been the case in your experience, but I know many of the folks on this forum and you are wrong about them, if that is your impression. You lay something straight out for them to see and comprehend, and they will discuss it, believe me. Try to stop coming off as sounding consistently critical, and you will say a major change in the way you AND your thoughts and feelings on ANY given subject are received.

I have taken the time, in the last few days, to get to know my brother Stormy better as well. He is quite the guy. He opened my eyes to something that I had no knowledge of before, and I am still "studying" it out.

REMEMBER...most often it is not WHAT we say but the WAY in which we say it, that makes all of the difference.

I have never loved my church or my brethren more than I do right now, this very day. We ARE a "peculiar" people, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Some of this post, might be appropriate for it's own thread, and I think I will do that very thing.

 

[StormyOne]

Thanks Sassy, I believe you have a good heart, and are honest in your journey with God.

Let me explain myself a little further regarding how I have come to see the sealing and the mark. Worship does not happen in a vacuum. It is an extension of something. That something is usually our treasuring or internalizing something about what we are worshipping.

There is a controversy between Christ and Satan. Christ has a set of values and a certain character. Satan also has a set of values and a certain character. They are not the same. The bible tells us that Christ who is God, humbled himself, even to the death of the cross. The bible tells us that Lucifer who was created said he was going to be like the Most High God. See the character? Christ chose humility, Lucifer chose exaltation. We know that God hates pride. Ask Nebuchadnezzar.

So then, being sealed means we will have the character of Christ in us. Having the mark almost comes naturally because without the holy spirit we are just like Nebuchadnezzar.... read the story again, Daniel tells the king he has 12 months to straighten up, to treat people as they should be treated and to become humble. Nebuchadnezzar instead chooses to boast about all he has done, and was driven from men for 7 years..... At the end of that time Nebuchadnezzar had to admit that God was just and true and that God would humble those who were proud....

I submit for your consideration the values of Christ's kingdom: Matt 5:43-48 You have knowledge that it was said, Have love for your neighbour, and hate for him who is against you: (44) But I say to you, Have love for those who are against you, and make prayer for those who are cruel to you; (45) So that you may be the sons of your Father in heaven; for his sun gives light to the evil and to the good, and he sends rain on the upright man and on the sinner. (46) For if you have love for those who have love for you, what credit is it to you? do not the tax-farmers the same? (47) And if you say, Good day, to your brothers only, what do you do more than others? do not even the Gentiles the same? (48) Be then complete in righteousness, even as your Father in heaven is complete.

Jesus said Love your enemies.... The values of Satan's kingdom are the complete opposite....That is the starting point from what I have studied...

Whose values does your worship reflect? Christ's? Satan's? Humility, or exaltation?

 

[Cliff2]

Thanks Sassy, I believe you have a good heart, and are honest in your journey with God.

Let me explain myself a little further regarding how I have come to see the sealing and the mark. Worship does not happen in a vacuum. It is an extension of something. That something is usually our treasuring or internalizing something about what we are worshipping.

There is a controversy between Christ and Satan. Christ has a set of values and a certain character. Satan also has a set of values and a certain character. They are not the same. The bible tells us that Christ who is God, humbled himself, even to the death of the cross. The bible tells us that Lucifer who was created said he was going to be like the Most High God. See the character? Christ chose humility, Lucifer chose exaltation. We know that God hates pride. Ask Nebuchadnezzar.

So then, being sealed means we will have the character of Christ in us. Having the mark almost comes naturally because without the holy spirit we are just like Nebuchadnezzar.... read the story again, Daniel tells the king he has 12 months to straighten up, to treat people as they should be treated and to become humble. Nebuchadnezzar instead chooses to boast about all he has done, and was driven from men for 7 years..... At the end of that time Nebuchadnezzar had to admit that God was just and true and that God would humble those who were proud....

I submit for your consideration the values of Christ's kingdom: Matt 5:43-48 You have knowledge that it was said, Have love for your neighbour, and hate for him who is against you: (44) But I say to you, Have love for those who are against you, and make prayer for those who are cruel to you; (45) So that you may be the sons of your Father in heaven; for his sun gives light to the evil and to the good, and he sends rain on the upright man and on the sinner. (46) For if you have love for those who have love for you, what credit is it to you? do not the tax-farmers the same? (47) And if you say, Good day, to your brothers only, what do you do more than others? do not even the Gentiles the same? (48) Be then complete in righteousness, even as your Father in heaven is complete.

Jesus said Love your enemies.... The values of Satan's kingdom are the complete opposite....That is the starting point from what I have studied...

Whose values does your worship reflect? Christ's? Satan's? Humility, or exaltation?

Lets look at this statement.

Whose values does your worship reflect? Christ's? Satan's? Humility, or exaltation?

The result of worshiping Satan is the mark of the beast which is when the Sunday Law is enforced, that is the mark of the beast.

No one has it now.

If Satan's mark is Sunday worship then God's sign is the opposite. That is worship on the true day, the true Sabbath, the 7th day of the week.

 

[StormyOne]

Thank you Cliff... I think you missed what I was saying because the focus is on "worship" and the mark as opposed to the mindset and the character....

According to your response I would say then that the seal of God is Christ's character within the believer and the mark of the beast (who is a proxy for Satan) is the character of Satan within those who have chosen to reject Christ.....My studies have led me to believe that the seal and the mark are so much more than a day chosen for worship and are the essence of the value system that has been incorporated in the lives of those who are rational enough to make a choice of those two very different value systems....

 

[Cliff2]

Thank you Cliff... I think you missed what I was saying because the focus is on "worship" and the mark as opposed to the mindset and the character....

According to your response I would say then that the seal of God is Christ's character within the believer and the mark of the beast (who is a proxy for Satan) is the character of Satan within those who have chosen to reject Christ.....My studies have led me to believe that the seal and the mark are so much more than a day chosen for worship and are the essence of the value system that has been incorporated in the lives of those who are rational enough to make a choice of those two very different value systems....

To a certain extent what you say is right, but then how is that allegiance shown to the world?

Those that have the mark of the beast will receive in their forehead or hand and then will follow the beast and the dragon by being able to buy and sell and worship on Sunday.

Those that have the seal of God will receive it in their heads, not their hands. Meaning that it is a conscious decision on their part. This is shown by them in worship on the 7th day of the week.

 

[Cliff2]

I really do agree, that the focus will be on worship.

God or Satan, the 7th day or the 1st day, Sabbath or Sunday.

Mark of the Beast or the Seal of God.

Lost or Saved.

 

[StormyOne]

To a certain extent what you say is right, but then how is that allegiance shown to the world?

Those that have the mark of the beast will receive in their forehead or hand and then will follow the beast and the dragon by being able to buy and sell and worship on Sunday.

Those that have the seal of God will receive it in their heads, not their hands. Meaning that it is a conscious decision on their part. This is shown by them in worship on the 7th day of the week.

Thank you for clarifying your understanding of this concept....

 

[statrei]

To a certain extent what you say is right, but then how is that allegiance shown to the world?

That, I think is where the problem lies. We have been looking for a mark/seal that we can recognize. Why would we want to? So we can laugh at those who are not in our group. The mark is recognized by God. He is the only one who needs to know. Now I understand the rationale behind it all.

 

[StormyOne]

I really do agree, that the focus will be on worship.

God or Satan, the 7th day or the 1st day, Sabbath or Sunday.

Mark of the Beast or the Seal of God.

Lost or Saved.

It seems though to me that the focus will be on character, and everything else is an extention of that character... Christ in you, leads you to "be" a certain way.... Christ not in you also leads you to "be" a certain way....

 

[honorthesabbath]

I really do agree, that the focus will be on worship.

God or Satan, the 7th day or the 1st day, Sabbath or Sunday.

Mark of the Beast or the Seal of God.

Lost or Saved.

A BIGGGG AMEN CLIFF!!!! GOOD TO SEE A REAL SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST POSTING THE TRUTH !!!!

 

[PaleHorse]

I really do agree, that the focus will be on worship.

God or Satan, the 7th day or the 1st day, Sabbath or Sunday.

Mark of the Beast or the Seal of God.

Lost or Saved.

Amen brother!

 

[StormyOne]

A BIGGGG AMEN CLIFF!!!! GOOD TO SEE A REAL SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST POSTING THE TRUTH !!!!

Let's see... I am real.... and I am adventist... but I guess that places me in a different category.... oh well....

Amen Cliff for being a real adventist.....

(p.s. Honor, love you too.... hope your evening was good)