Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

BABerean2 · Jul 23, 2018

Douggg said:
Jesus did not say all Jews were of the synagogue of Satan.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

All of those who reject Christ are of the synagogue of Satan.

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Douggg · Jul 23, 2018

[/QUOTE]

BABerean2 said:
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

All of those who reject Christ are of the synagogue of Satan.

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That is not what Jesus is saying in that verse in Revelation 3. Jesus was referring to Jewish religious authorities who were persecuting the early Christians of the church at Philadelphia in particular.

BABerean2 · Jul 23, 2018

That is not what Jesus is saying in that verse in Revelation 3. Jesus was referring to Jewish religious authorities who were persecuting the early Christians of the church at Philadelphia in particular.[/QUOTE]

The words of Jesus and John never disagree...

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Douggg · Jul 23, 2018

BABerean2 said:
douggg wrote....That is not what Jesus is saying in that verse in Revelation 3. Jesus was referring to Jewish religious authorities who were persecuting the early Christians of the church at Philadelphia in particular.

Bab2 wrote....The words of Jesus and John never disagree...

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You are misapplying what John said in 1John to what Jesus said in Revelation 3. They are not in disagreement, but are talking about two different things.

keras · Jul 23, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Your quote of Matthew 25:31-46 is about the Return of Jesus to the earth and how He will judge the nations.
But we know from Revelation 20:11-15, that punishment of the wicked and the conferring of Eternal life to the righteous does not happen until after the GWT, at the end of the Millennium.
Verse 46 says it WILL happen, and to think it does at the beginning of the Millennium, is a serious contradiction of scripture.

Riberra · Jul 23, 2018

BaBeren2 said:
Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
Mat 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire.

The Coming of Jesus at the Battle of Armageddon
Revelation 19:20-21
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought the signs in his sight, wherewith he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshipped his image: they two were cast alive into the lake of fire that burneth with brimstone:

21 and the rest were killed with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, [even the sword] which came forth out of his mouth: and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

The believers still alive and remain UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS who have not taken the mark of the Beast and who have not worshiped the Beast and his image will be part of the First Resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6, they will be the first to Enter the Kingdom of God ON THE EARTH [Starting with the 1,000 years Reign of Jesus on the Earth [They will enter The CAMP OF THE SAINTS] in their new incorruptible immortal body.

All those not part of the FIRST RESURRECTION mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment 1,000 years later ...Revelation 20:15
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

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[/QUOTE]

keras · Jul 23, 2018

Riberra said:
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

This refers to the Eternal Kingdom.
Isaiah 65:20 is plain; there will be death during the Millennium. Immortality for anyone does not happen until the Book of Life is opened, at the GWT.

Riberra · Jul 23, 2018

keras said:
This refers to the Eternal Kingdom.
Isaiah 65:20 is plain; there will be death during the Millennium. Immortality for anyone does not happen until the Book of Life is opened, at the GWT.

Exactly.
Only those who will be part of the First Resurrection Revelation 20:4-6 [which will include the believers still alive unto the Coming of Jesus who have not taken the Mark of the Beast...] will receive A IMMORTAL INCORRUPTIBLE BODY TO REIGN WITH JESUS DURING THE MILLENNIUM OVER THOSE IN NATURAL BODY WHO WILL REPOPULATE THE EARTH DURING THE MILLENNIUM.

The others DEAD Revelation 20:6 --- GOOD or BAD will be Judged at the Great White Throne Judgment 1,000 years later .
Revelation 20:15
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

BABerean2 · Jul 23, 2018

keras said:
Your quote of Matthew 25:31-46 is about the Return of Jesus to the earth and how He will judge the nations.
But we know from Revelation 20:11-15, that punishment of the wicked and the conferring of Eternal life to the righteous does not happen until after the GWT, at the end of the Millennium.
Verse 46 says it WILL happen, and to think it does at the beginning of the Millennium, is a serious contradiction of scripture.

I never said that Matthew 25:31-46 occurs at the beginning of the Millennium.

Christ returns "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
The fire comes at the end of Revelation 20.

The "time of the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:18.
Your Bible says the same thing.

The 1,000 years in Revelation 20 is symbolic of the Church Age.

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BABerean2 · Jul 23, 2018

Riberra said:
Only those who will be part of the First Resurrection Revelation 20:4-6

Based on John 5:24, I have already gone through the "first resurrection" of being passed from death to life, upon faith in Christ.

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Riberra · Jul 23, 2018

BABerean2 said:
The 1,000 years in Revelation 20 is symbolic of the Church Age.

Totally wrong again....the 1,000 years correspond to the period of time into which Satan will not be allowed to deceive the Nations ...and that is clearly cited in THE BIBLE to happen AT THE COMING OF JESUS Just After the Battle of Armageddon ....

Revelation 20:1-3
1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut [it], and sealed [it] over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.

BAB YOU HAVE BEEN BUSTED BY THE HOLY SCRIPTURE AGAIN.

DavidPT · Jul 23, 2018

Riberra said:
Then Satan will give power to the Beast to continue during 42 Months Revelation 13:3-7 ...and in the last 6 months of the Reign of the Beast the 7 Vials of the Wrath of God [Revelation 16]will be poured out upon those who will have taken the mark and worshiped the Beast and his image . THUS EVENTS HAPPENING DURING THE TRIBULATION.

You are going to have to enlighten me here and explain how you have determined these things occur in the last 6 months of the reign of the beast. I don't know if you are right or wrong here, so until I see how you are determining this, I have no way to know whether you are right or wrong here.

Riberra · Jul 23, 2018

DavidPT said:
You are going to have to enlighten me here and explain how you have determined these things occur in the last 6 months of the reign of the beast.

I said the the 7 VIALS of the WRATH OF GOD[Revelation 16] will be poured out during the last 6 months of the 42 MONTHS Reign of the Beast.

I said that the THIRD WOE [The 7TH TRUMPET events] WILL HAVE A DURATION OF 42 MONTHS ....ie -it is the 42 Months Reign of the Beast [Revelation 13 Through Revelation 18]who will precede the Coming Of Jesus in Glory .

BABerean2 · Jul 23, 2018

Riberra said:
Totally wrong again....the 1,000 years correspond to the period of time into which Satan will not be allowed to deceive the Nations ...and that is clearly cited in THE BIBLE to happen AT THE COMING OF JESUS Just After the Battle of Armageddon ....

Revelation 20:1-3
1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut [it], and sealed [it] over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.

BAB YOU HAVE BEEN BUSTED BY THE HOLY SCRIPTURE AGAIN.

Revelation 11:18

(CJB) "The Goyim raged. But now your rage has come, the time for the dead to be judged, the time for rewarding your servants the prophets and your holy people, those who stand in awe of your name, both small and great. It is also the time for destroying those who destroy the earth."

(ESV) The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth."

(Geneva) And the Gentiles were angrie, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they shoulde be iudged, and that thou shouldest giue reward vnto thy seruants the Prophets, and to the Saintes, and to them that feare thy Name, to small and great, and shouldest destroy them, which destroy the earth.

(Greek NT TR) και τα εθνη ωργισθησαν και ηλθεν η οργη σου και ο καιρος των νεκρων κριθηναι και δουναι τον μισθον τοις δουλοις σου τοις προφηταις και τοις αγιοις και τοις φοβουμενοις το ονομα σου τοις μικροις και τοις μεγαλοις και διαφθειραι τους διαφθειροντας την γην

(GW) The nations were angry, but your anger has come. The time has come for the dead to be judged: to reward your servants, the prophets, your holy people, and those who fear your name, no matter if they are important or unimportant, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."

(LITV-TSP) And the nations were full of wrath; and Your wrath came, and the time of the judging of the dead, and to give the reward to Your slaves, to the prophets, and to the saints, and to the ones fearing Your name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those destroying the earth.

(KJV) And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

(KJV+) AndG2532 theG3588 nationsG1484 were angry,G3710 andG2532 thyG4675 wrathG3709 is come,G2064 andG2532 theG3588 timeG2540 of theG3588 dead,G3498 that they should be judged,G2919 andG2532 that thou shouldest giveG1325 rewardG3408 unto thyG4675 servantsG1401 theG3588 prophets,G4396 andG2532 to theG3588 saints,G40 andG2532 them that fearG5399 thyG4675 name,G3686 smallG3398 andG2532 great;G3173 andG2532 shouldest destroyG1311 them which destroyG1311 theG3588 earth.G1093

(NKJV) The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."

(YLT) and the nations were angry, and Thine anger did come, and the time of the dead, to be judged, and to give the reward to Thy servants, to the prophets, and to the saints, and to those fearing Thy name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those who are destroying the land.'

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Riberra · Jul 23, 2018

BABerean2 said:
(NKJV) The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."

Do you know that the Judgment OF THE DEAD mentioned in Revelation 11:18 simply mean that God will add or take out names from the Book of Life ....

The Judgment of those who will be alive on the Earth from that moment on...will depend upon their decision to take the Mark and worship the Beast and his image Or NOT....
Revelation 14:9-12
9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, IF ANY MAN worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, 10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here Is The Patience Of The Saints, They That Keep The Commandments Of God, And The Faith Of Jesus.

BABerean2 · Jul 24, 2018

Riberra said:
Do you know that the Judgment OF THE DEAD mentioned in Revelation 11:18 simply mean that God will add or take out names from the Book of Life ....

In other words Revelation 11:18 cannot be "the time" of the judgment of the dead, because it ruins your premill doctrine...

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

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Dave L · Jul 24, 2018

Douggg said:
Jesus did not say all Jews were of the synagogue of Satan. What was being said is that some Jews were doing Satan's work in opposing the gospel and Christians.

That's a totally ridiculous claim.

Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross. Circumcision made one a physical member of Abraham's seed. Moses kept circumcision as the means through which one became a physical member of Israel. This meant any related to Jacob or not related became physical members of Israel through circumcision. Any not circumcised were excommunicated to gentile status. Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross. In this he removed all unbelievers from Israel (Romans 11) leaving only believers in Christ intact.

Those who call themselves Jews are lying because Jesus removed the only means for one becoming a Jew. And if you do not worship Christ, you worship Satan by default. The Jews are not a race. There is only one human race. Judaism is a false religion made up of diverse ethnicities.

Dave L · Jul 24, 2018

DavidPT said:
Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Allow me to try and help you out here then. Read that passage in Revelation in light of Isaiah 60.

Isaiah 60:9 Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.
10 And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.
11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.
12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.
13 The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.
14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

Then read these verses in light of Revelation 21.

Revelation 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

Jesus is Israel according to the NT. Along with those who trust in him. So all "Isreal" promises find fulfillment in him ONLY.

“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20)

All of the promises ever made to Abraham are yes in Christ. Not Satan worshipers who exist only because of their hatred and rejection of Christ..

Douggg · Jul 24, 2018

Dave L said:
Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross. Circumcision made one a physical member of Abraham's seed. Moses kept circumcision as the means through which one became a physical member of Israel. This meant any related to Jacob or not related became physical members of Israel through circumcision. Any not circumcised were excommunicated to gentile status. Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross. In this he removed all unbelievers from Israel (Romans 11) leaving only believers in Christ intact.

Those who call themselves Jews are lying because Jesus removed the only means for one becoming a Jew. And if you do not worship Christ, you worship Satan by default. The Jews are not a race. There is only one human race. Judaism is a false religion made up of diverse ethnicities.

Go to any Jewish website. To be a Jew a person's mother has to be a Jew. If a person's father is a Jew but the mother is not - then the person is not considered a Jew in Judaism.

Jesus Himself was a Jew because his mother Mary was a Jew.

Not only that, God is the one who brought the Jews back to their own land - so you are saying to God that He doesn't know who is a Jew or not.

Dave L · Jul 24, 2018

Douggg said:
Go to any Jewish website. To be a Jew a person's mother has to be a Jew. If a person's father is a Jew but the mother is not - then the person is not considered a Jew in Judaism.

Not only that, God is the one who brought the Jews back to their own land - so you are saying to God that He doesn't know who is a Jew or not.

This is not what scripture says. I encourage you to launch a study on this topic and see for your self. This will get you started:

Circumcision made one a covenant member of Abraham's seed. At the time over 300 servants and their families became Abraham's covenant seed through circumcision when only Ishmael was his blood relative.

And God told Abraham, any not circumcised were to be cut off. This meant they were not his covenant seed no matter if they were related or not.

So when Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, he broke off all physical unbelieving members of Israel. This left only the believers in Christ who like Abraham had circumcised hearts.

By invalidating circumcision, the Only biblical Israel today is Christendom. And the State of Israel is nothing more than the gentiles, calling themselves Jews, who trample down Jerusalem until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled.

Paul has the unbelievers broken off from Israel in Romans 11. And reattached only through faith in Christ.

Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

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