Eschatalogical views and the question of history

[dms1972]

I think all that is very important to absorb, and thankyou for posting RandyPNW.

One thing though in my own walk I have experienced, we do come under temptations and accusations, and these sometimes from within congregations, and theological learning and talk is all very well, but I think those who pastor churches need to also help their flock with more than exegesis, and theology.

I think Satan too is quite happy with a lot of the theological talk that goes on in churches and elsewhere sometimes, even when its reasonably orthodox. That is not to disparage theological discussion at all. But to indicate what many need at times and don't get is real pastoral support and prayer when undergoing spiritual conflict. Because speaking from experience, I didn't know what was going on, and why things suddenly got so difficult and the people at the church I was going to were rather uncomprehending pastorally and just spoke intellectually. Mere theology from a Pastor or Elder at those times seems quite honestly like moonshine. All this theology has to translate into genuine pastoral care with sensitivity and discernment, not just passing on of knowledge.

It characteristic of it that spiritual conflict can bring confusion in its wake, and sometimes leaves earnest christians unable to explain what's wrong. It is true that "God is not the author of confusion", but telling someone that is not were pastoral responsibility ends.

 

[RandyPNW]

I think all that is very important to absorb, and thankyou for posting RandyPNW. One thing though in my own walk I have experienced, we do come under temptations and accusations, and these sometimes from within congregations, and theological learning and talk is all very well, but I think those who pastor churches need to also help their flock with more than exegesis, and theology.

I think Satan too is quite happy with a lot of the theological talk that goes on in churches and elsewhere sometimes, even when its reasonably orthodox. That is not to disparage theological discussion at all. But to indicate what many need at times and don't get is real pastoral support and prayer when undergoing spiritual conflict. Because speaking from experience, I didn't know what was going on, and why things suddenly got so difficult and the people at the church I was going to were almost totally defective pastorally and just spoke intellectually. Mere theology from a Pastor or Elder at those times seems quite honestly like moonshine. All this theology has to translate into genuine pastoral care with discernment, not just passing on of knowledge, and I believe that is serious weakness that needs addressed in some churches.

It characteristic of it that spiritual conflict often brings confusion, and leaves earnest christians unable to explain whats wrong. Just saying as was said to me several times "God is not the author of confusion" while true, is not were pastoral responsibility ends, and if anyone reading this thinks that will suffice they simply are failing earnest christians caught in spiritual conflict.

I think many of us feel that way, and also feel a bit helpless. Churches often settle into a routine, and the pastor, rulling like a monarch, is so afraid division will interupt the ministry that he controls everything.

He stifles the growth of others in the church who would contribute, out of fear of worldly competition or losing out to someone more popular. Then with a stifled congregation that isn't growing, the pastor hurls condemnation because "people aren't evangelizing!"

Oh well, I rant. The real problem may be that we're going through a time of testing. Only God can bring genuine spiritual revival. And He will bring it when He thinks it is warranted.

Despite the problems in my own church we are trying to build fellowship outside of the church building, which I think is noble. And learning to share our faith in public settings will help, I think, particularly as we visit and see real needs in our fellow Christians. This has led to more prayer and to more practical help with people in need in the church.

The theology is needed to preserve a focus on God's living word at a time when routine threatens to put us all to sleep. People tend to get excited when the find they can control the outcome. Theology would prevent this tendency to "humanize" the Gospel until we control things only God should control.

 

[dms1972]

Yes, thanks again for your thoughts, some of that rings true in how it seemed to be in some of the churches I have been to. Of course we should not be in a hurry to reach such a conclusion and may sometimes be mistaken. But I have known that to be the case in at least one church I used to go to. One chap there was very keen to contribute more along pastoral lines, said he felt he wasn't being given the opportunity. The problem too can stem from those in the congregation who keep asking "Where is the Pastor? I want the Pastor to visit me."​