escaping through the fire

[Vicky gould]

all redeemed people will pass through the fire and have their works that have not been done in faith and love will be burned away. The person who was redeemed will not have their salvation lost. Fire in Scripture is most often shown to be God's judgment. Will it be our passing through His judgment accepting or destroying works unfit for Him that will be part of what brings out our tears that He will remove forever. This will be the closest the redeemed will come to God's wrath.

 

[Ricky M]

Over and over in the Bible Christ's return is likened to a feast, and over and over again we hear that some who were invited find themselves shut out. This divining occurs after He has gathered us, so these are all saved. But those who find themselves locked out of the feast, while saved, are separated from God. And being separated from God they are going thru a very real form of hell. As tho thru the fire.

 

[Oldmantook]

all redeemed people will pass through the fire and have their works that have not been done in faith and love will be burned away. The person who was redeemed will not have their salvation lost. Fire in Scripture is most often shown to be God's judgment. Will it be our passing through His judgment accepting or destroying works unfit for Him that will be part of what brings out our tears that He will remove forever. This will be the closest the redeemed will come to God's wrath.

Fire as in the lake of fire. The redeemed can indeed lose their salvation and end up in the lake of fire. Paul warned the brethren in Rome that if they are living according to the flesh, they will die (Rom 8:13). Paul could not have been referring to physical death because everyone physically dies no matter what kind of life they lived. Spiritual death is separation from God and loss of salvation which Paul warned against.

 

[chevyontheriver]

all redeemed people will pass through the fire and have their works that have not been done in faith and love will be burned away. The person who was redeemed will not have their salvation lost. Fire in Scripture is most often shown to be God's judgment. Will it be our passing through His judgment accepting or destroying works unfit for Him that will be part of what brings out our tears that He will remove forever. This will be the closest the redeemed will come to God's wrath.

Careful. You have just described purgatory. You may be in a denomination that does not approve of such thoughts.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Over and over in the Bible Christ's return is likened to a feast, and over and over again we hear that some who were invited find themselves shut out. This divining occurs after He has gathered us, so these are all saved. But those who find themselves locked out of the feast, while saved, are separated from God. And being separated from God they are going thru a very real form of hell. As tho thru the fire.

There are two aspects to salvation. There is the initial, born again experience. Then there is the progressive, ongoing process of deliverance from sin, self, Satan and the world. Those who avoid the demands of the cross and continue to live for self, are the "foolish" virgins as represented in the parable. They had "oil" but they lacked the diligence to maintain their Christian lives. Sleep in that parable is death. Some will meet the Lord Jesus with great joy because they have an inner fullness of the Holy Spirit that has cost them. Those who refuse to pay the price in this life miss out on God's best in the next. There is placement in the Kingdom. Some will be closer to Lord Jesus than others. Some will be so far away that it will be a cause of great regret. They are still saved, but only just. How much better to seek God's kingdom first and foremost. Harder in this life, but glorious in the next.

 

[Oldmantook]

There are two aspects to salvation. There is the initial, born again experience. Then there is the progressive, ongoing process of deliverance from sin, self, Satan and the world. Those who avoid the demands of the cross and continue to live for self, are the "foolish" virgins as represented in the parable. They had "oil" but they lacked the diligence to maintain their Christian lives. Sleep in that parable is death. Some will meet the Lord Jesus with great joy because they have an inner fullness of the Holy Spirit that has cost them. Those who refuse to pay the price in this life miss out on God's best in the next. There is placement in the Kingdom. Some will be closer to Lord Jesus than others. Some will be so far away that it will be a cause of great regret. They are still saved, but only just. How much better to seek God's kingdom first and foremost. Harder in this life, but glorious in the next.

So how would you explain Paul's warning that those brethren who live according to the flesh in Rom 8:13 will die? They are not still saved are they? Spiritual death means no salvation.

 

[Aussie Pete]

So how would you explain Paul's warning that those brethren who live according to the flesh in Rom 8:13 will die? They are not still saved are they? Spiritual death means no salvation.

Paul did not say spiritual death. Living according to the flesh means that a person is not born again. Romans 8:9 makes that clear. Now a Christian may allow the flesh to rule even though he/she is born again. Such person is separated from God in fellowship, but not in relationship. Such a one can be restored if they repent and confess their sin. You cannot be born again one minute and unborn again the next. There are two aspects to salvation. Being born again is the first. Being delivered from sin, self Satan and the world is the progressive, being saved. Some refuse to allow themselves to be delivered. Paul warned the Corinthians about that. (1 Corinthians 5:5). I think that this aspect of the Christian life is greatly neglected and the teaching should be restored.

 

[Ricky M]

There are two aspects to salvation. There is the initial, born again experience. Then there is the progressive, ongoing process of deliverance from sin, self, Satan and the world. Those who avoid the demands of the cross and continue to live for self, are the "foolish" virgins as represented in the parable. They had "oil" but they lacked the diligence to maintain their Christian lives. Sleep in that parable is death. Some will meet the Lord Jesus with great joy because they have an inner fullness of the Holy Spirit that has cost them. Those who refuse to pay the price in this life miss out on God's best in the next. There is placement in the Kingdom. Some will be closer to Lord Jesus than others. Some will be so far away that it will be a cause of great regret. They are still saved, but only just. How much better to seek God's kingdom first and foremost. Harder in this life, but glorious in the next.

That's one way to look at it. How you interpret it depends on how you look at OSAS. Which, if this place is anything like the one I left, that is a hot-button topic!

 

[Aussie Pete]

That's one way to look at it. How you interpret it depends on how you look at OSAS. Which, if this place is anything like the one I left, that is a hot-button topic!

That's because there is so little knowledge about what salvation means. Being born again is instantaneous and depends entirely on God's work through the cross of Christ. We need to be convicted of sin, repent and accept the work of the Lord Jesus on the cross as finished. Once we are born again, we need to learn to cooperate with the Lord Jesus as He reveals Himself and His will in us. All the power is His but we must be willing to obey. Most Christians are unwilling and have no idea what God's will really is. That is the ongoing work of the cross as we choose to die to self. The work of the Holy Spirit is to reveal God's will to us. The Holy Spirit also gives us the desire to know and follow God's will. The natural life of the soul rebels against God. As we learn to resist self, as we realise that we died with Christ and really are new creations, freedom becomes ours. It is a process. A few Christians seem to be almost instantly spiritual. Charles Spurgeon is one example, Watchman Nee another. I met someone like that, not famous but the primary help to me in my Christian life. Most of us (me) are slow beginners. It does not matter how you start. It is how you finish that matters.

 

[Oldmantook]

Paul did not say spiritual death. Living according to the flesh means that a person is not born again. Romans 8:9 makes that clear. Now a Christian may allow the flesh to rule even though he/she is born again. Such person is separated from God in fellowship, but not in relationship. Such a one can be restored if they repent and confess their sin. You cannot be born again one minute and unborn again the next. There are two aspects to salvation. Being born again is the first. Being delivered from sin, self Satan and the world is the progressive, being saved. Some refuse to allow themselves to be delivered. Paul warned the Corinthians about that. (1 Corinthians 5:5). I think that this aspect of the Christian life is greatly neglected and the teaching should be restored.

Nope. Paul in v.12 makes it clear that he is addressing the "brethren" and not unbelievers. When Paul makes it clear whom he is writing to, we do not have the leeway of interpreting his audience otherwise. Secondly, he starts off v.13 by stating IF you are living according to the flesh. He cannot be addressing the unsaved person because the unsaved person, unregenerated by the Spirit has no choice but to live according to the flesh. If Paul were addressing unsaved people he would have employed the word "since." ONLY BELIEVERS have the choice if they should live according to the flesh or if they should live according to the Spirit. Unbelievers have no such choice and can only live according to the flesh.
Do not be deceived. Habitual sin unrepented of leads to spiritual death. The Apostle John like Paul gave the same warning regarding chronic sin.
"Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil...." 1 Jn 3:7-8
You are correct in stating that such a one can be restored IF they repent. However IF does not mean that they will certainly do so. They might choose to repent or they might choose not to and continue to practice sin. No repentance = no forgiveness = no salvation.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Nope. Paul in v.12 makes it clear that he is addressing the "brethren" and not unbelievers. When Paul makes it clear whom he is writing to, we do not have the leeway of interpreting his audience otherwise. Secondly, he starts off v.13 by stating IF you are living according to the flesh. He cannot be addressing the unsaved person because the unsaved person, unregenerated by the Spirit has no choice but to live according to the flesh. If Paul were addressing unsaved people he would have employed the word "since." ONLY BELIEVERS have the choice if they should live according to the flesh or if they should live according to the Spirit. Unbelievers have no such choice and can only live according to the flesh.
Do not be deceived. Habitual sin unrepented of leads to spiritual death. The Apostle John like Paul gave the same warning regarding chronic sin.
"Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil...." 1 Jn 3:7-8
You are correct in stating that such a one can be restored IF they repent. However IF does not mean that they will certainly do so. They might choose to repent or they might choose not to and continue to practice sin. No repentance = no forgiveness = no salvation.

In that case, no one will make it.

 

[Oldmantook]

In that case, no one will make it.

No. Did you not read the verse? It plainly states the PRACTICE of sin. Any believer who practices sin demonstrates an unrepentant lifestyle and is of the devil. Living according to the flesh instead of living according to the Spirit is a lifestyle choice resulting in spiritual death. This is different from occassional sin which we all do since no one is without sin. Those who walk in the light as a lifestyle still sin, but when they occasionally sin, they confess and Jesus' blood cleanses their sins (1 Jn 1:7). Forgiveness is not promised to those who engage in habitual sin, since their lifestyle obviously demonstrates that they are unrepentant. No repentance = no forgiveness. However, if someone who practices sin, turns away from sinning and seeks forgiveness, God is able to forgive. Some do and some don't.