Esau sought repentance with many tears, but did not find it... The importance of repentance...

[Neogaia777]

Esau sought repentance with "many tears" but did not find it... And, God "hated" Esau but Jacob he loved...

Why? I think I know... Esau weept bitterly, probably fell out on the floor, rolled around, maybe even in sackcloth and ashes, probably griped, moaned, groaned, maybe [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed and complained, went through all the emotional drama associated with repentance, but did not find or attain to repentance. That is turning around and away from and realizing the depth of his former wicked ways and "changing" them.

This he did not do and this is why, I believe, it says that God hated him. Cause he went through all the emotional drama, yet did not change at all. Perhaps even with all the emotional drama did not realize, admit, or agree with God about the depths of what could have been his "former" past tense wicked ways had he agreed with God about it, might have given him what he needed that is, the ability to change it.

God probably came to not like Esau basically trying to emotionally manipulate him perhaps. He (God) probably gave Esau many grace periods perhaps and times and time and many chances to change, but Esau did not which is why I think it says God hated him and probably does not like those people like him either. Jacob did change however, Jacob agreed with God about the depths of his wickedness, (which is the point and purpose of the law) yet there is no record of Jacob ever becoming overly emotional about it. And he found repentance, that is the ability to turn around, turn his back on his former ways and "change" them.

So, Jacob he loved, but Esau he hated. He still allowed Esau to prosper (in this life at least) however, God didn't like Esau much. It does not even matter the depth of your, what hopefully becomes "former" wicked ways, but admitting it and agreeing with God confessing it, acknowledging it fully, then and this is the important part. Forsaking those old ways and "changing" them and adopting new, better ways, ways more pleasing to God and, ultimately better for your own self as well. This is what Esau did not do and could not find or attain to like Jacob did.

Real change, true and genuine repentance is what is important to God, both in the Old and New testaments. Your perhaps many tears and a lot of crying out and getting very emotional with God only matters if it helps you repent or "change". Without change none of it really matters.

Now some might say "well I've generally been mostly good most of life, why do I need to change, I'm mostly good already?" I would say "Really? Mostly good compared to what? Or who? Compared to the law and the truth of humanity from scripture? Compared to God? Are you still good compared to that?" (Most of these kind of people are not being very genuinely or truly honest with themselves, others, or God though most do not even know it (yet) but, if God cares about them, they will, in time...)

God Bless!

Oh, also, Esau did not value his birthright or inheritance (blessing) from his Father, like Jacob did... To Jacob, he valued it more than anything else, Esau did not... Jacob was so obsessed with it, that it permeated his dreams, when he wrestled with the angel, possibly the Lord and would not stop or let him go till he first blessed him... Which is another, the other reason also...

 

[St_Worm2]

God probably came to not like Esau basically trying to emotionally manipulate him perhaps. He (God) probably gave Esau many grace periods perhaps and times and time and many chances to change, but Esau did not which is why I think it says God hated him and probably does not like those people like him either.

Hi N777, for your consideration concerning God and Esau (and others):

11 though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
12 it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.”
13 Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.” ~Romans 9​

 

[Hank77]

Hi N777, for your consideration concerning God and Esau (and others):

11 though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
12 it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.”
13 Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.” ~Romans 9​

Not only that what was Esau repenting of, selling his birth right for a cup of red soup.
This doesn't mean that Esau was forsaken by God in other ways or that he was not forgiven of other sins. It just means that even though he repented of selling his birth right he couldn't get it back. He has sealed his fate in that issue, which God had told Rebecca ahead of time who would have the birth right. But Jacob didn't get off scott free either for his stealing his brother's birth right through trickery. Esau forgave his brother for what he had done.

 

[John Hyperspace]

I think Esau's problem and why God did not accept him was the same as Cain's problem. He didn't love his brother: Genesis 27:41. So Esau's "repentance" was not a genuine change of heart in turning from darkness of hating his brother to light of loving him. 1 John 2:9-11, 1 John 3:15 and so his repentance was all show with no change of heart, to turn from the darkened heart of hatred, thus Esau did not pass from death to life: Acts 26:18, Ephesians 5:8, 1 John 1:5, 1 John 3:14 and this is true repentance, to turn from darkness of ill-will, to light of love. 1 John 2:10

 

[Hank77]

I think Esau's problem and why God did not accept him was the same as Cain's problem. He didn't love his brother: Genesis 27:41. So Esau's "repentance" was not a genuine change of heart in turning from darkness of hating his brother to light of loving him. 1 John 2:9-11, 1 John 3:15 and so his repentance was all show with no change of heart, to turn from the darkened heart of hatred, thus Esau did not pass from death to life: Acts 26:18, Ephesians 5:8, 1 John 1:5, 1 John 3:14 and this is true repentance, to turn from darkness of ill-will, to light of love. 1 John 2:10

Genesis 32-33
Gen 33:4 and Esau runneth to meet him, and embraceth him, and falleth on his neck, and kisseth him, and they weep;

Which scripture tells you that Esau did not have a change of heart towards his brother?

 

[John Hyperspace]

Genesis 32-33
Gen 33:4 and Esau runneth to meet him, and embraceth him, and falleth on his neck, and kisseth him, and they weep;

Which scripture tells you that Esau did not have a change of heart towards his brother?

He did have a change of heart, didn't he? But the topic was addressing Esau's repentance when he sought the blessing; it was during that time that it did him no good, because he hated his brother for the cause of the blessing, and planned in his heart to kill him. Not very, acceptable repentance to God, would you agree?

Esau did have a change of heart later; but initially he was in darkness, hating his brother, and receiving no blessing or inheritance which he thought to obtain, though his heart was dark, and he was blinded by his hatred.

 

[Hank77]

But the topic was addressing Esau's repentance when he sought the blessing; it was during that time that it did him no good, because he hated his brother for the cause of the blessing, and planned in his heart to kill him. Not very, acceptable repentance to God, would you agree?

When Esau sought to renew the blessing to himself he went to Issac and sought forgiveness for giving up his inheritance and even though he wept and begged Issac wouldn't relent and gave him a different blessing. It was after this that Esau sought to kill Jacob and Rebecca told Jacob to run away and hide.

Esau did have a change of heart later; but initially he was in darkness, hating his brother, and receiving no blessing or inheritance which he thought to obtain, though his heart was dark, and he was blinded by his hatred.

Yes his heart was now turned against his brother. It was about twenty years before they met again.

This is what scripture says about why God was angry with Esau.
Heb_12:16 lest any one be a fornicator, or a profane person, as Esau, who in exchange for one morsel of food did sell his birthright,

I believe that the birth right was given by God to the eldest son but Esau had so little care as to this special position that he easily and rashly promised it to Jacob, not thinking that he would actually not receive it, after all he was his father's favorite son.
Jacob deceived his father but that doesn't appear to be as great a sin against God as deliberately rejecting a gift from God.
There are mysteries that can be revealed in these scriptures about Esau and Jacob. The elder shall serve the younger.
Blessings to you.

 

[John Hyperspace]

When Esau sought to renew the blessing to himself he went to Issac and sought forgiveness for giving up his inheritance and even though he wept and begged Issac wouldn't relent and gave him a different blessing. It was after this that Esau sought to kill Jacob and Rebecca told Jacob to run away and hide.

Yes his heart was now turned against his brother. It was about twenty years before they met again.

This is what scripture says about why God was angry with Esau.
Heb_12:16 lest any one be a fornicator, or a profane person, as Esau, who in exchange for one morsel of food did sell his birthright,

I believe that the birth right was given by God to the eldest son but Esau had so little care as to this special position that he easily and rashly promised it to Jacob, not thinking that he would actually not receive it, after all he was his father's favorite son.
Jacob deceived his father but that doesn't appear to be as great a sin against God as deliberately rejecting a gift from God.
There are mysteries that can be revealed in these scriptures about Esau and Jacob. The elder shall serve the younger.
Blessings to you.

Right, but Esau's problem was his hatred of his brother; he wasn't "holy" but "profane" in his heart; the verse quoted is in such context:

Hebrews 12:14-16 which is writing of a "root of bitterness" which "defiles/profanes" and "fails the grace of God" because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of love of brother, which forgives, not, plots to kill. Paul writes likewise of "bitterness" Ephesians 4:30-32 and Esau "failed the grace of God" and "grieved the Holy Spirit" by which he could not receive the blessing of inheritance because he was in "darkness" and needed turned to the light: Acts 26:18 Esau's profanity again is seen in his taking this woman to wife to spite his father: Genesis 28:8-9. What this is all meaning is that, repentance with tears does nothing if the heart isn't changed. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom; and there is no inheritance in the profanity of bitterness and hatred of brother.

This is also allegory of the Jews, the children of the flesh, and the children of the promise: in that the children of the flesh under the law cannot receive the blessing of inheritance by repentance with tears, if they reject the repentance to life, which is of love. Without Christ, there is no inheritance; and without love of brother, there is no Christ in them, and no inheritance; though they be firstborn from Sinai. They refused Christ and were so rejected as Esau because they hated their brother, who is Christ: Hebrews 12:24-25

 

[Hank77]

Right, but Esau's problem was his hatred of his brother; he wasn't "holy" but "profane" in his heart; the verse quoted is in such context:

Hebrews 12:14-16 which is writing of a "root of bitterness" which "defiles/profanes" and "fails the grace of God" because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of love of brother, which forgives, not, plots to kill. Paul writes likewise of "bitterness" Ephesians 4:30-32 and Esau "failed the grace of God" and "grieved the Holy Spirit" by which he could not receive the blessing of inheritance because he was in "darkness" and needed turned to the light: Acts 26:18 Esau's profanity again is seen in his taking this woman to wife to spite his father: Genesis 28:8-9. What this is all meaning is that, repentance with tears does nothing if the heart isn't changed. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom; and there is no inheritance in the profanity of bitterness and hatred of brother.

This is also allegory of the Jews, the children of the flesh, and the children of the promise: in that the children of the flesh under the law cannot receive the blessing of inheritance by repentance with tears, if they reject the repentance to life, which is of love. Without Christ, there is no inheritance; and without love of brother, there is no Christ in them, and no inheritance; though they be firstborn from Sinai. They refused Christ and were so rejected as Esau because they hated their brother, who is Christ: Hebrews 12:24-25

I agree with some of your post but not all of it.
So I will refrain from further disagreement.
Blessings to you in Jesus name.

 

[zoidar]

God hated Esau. You know we are to hate our parents, children etc. "Hate" here has nothing to do with hate, but all to do with that God chose that Jacob would be the father to God's chosen people.

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple. /Luk 14:26

 

[TheSeabass]

Esau sought repentance with "many tears" but did not find it... And, God "hated" Esau but Jacob he loved...

Why? I think I know... Esau weept bitterly, probably fell out on the floor, rolled around, maybe even in sackcloth and ashes, probably griped, moaned, groaned, maybe [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed and complained, went through all the emotional drama associated with repentance, but did not find or attain to repentance. That is turning around and away from and realizing the depth of his former wicked ways and "changing" them.

This he did not do and this is why, I believe, it says that God hated him. Cause he went through all the emotional drama, yet did not change at all. Perhaps even with all the emotional drama did not realize, admit, or agree with God about the depths of what could have been his "former" past tense wicked ways had he agreed with God about it, might have given him what he needed that is, the ability to change it.

God probably came to not like Esau basically trying to emotionally manipulate him perhaps. He (God) probably gave Esau many grace periods perhaps and times and time and many chances to change, but Esau did not which is why I think it says God hated him and probably does not like those people like him either. Jacob did change however, Jacob agreed with God about the depths of his wickedness, (which is the point and purpose of the law) yet there is no record of Jacob ever becoming overly emotional about it. And he found repentance, that is the ability to turn around, turn his back on his former ways and "change" them.

So, Jacob he loved, but Esau he hated. He still allowed Esau to prosper (in this life at least) however, God didn't like Esau much. It does not even matter the depth of your, what hopefully becomes "former" wicked ways, but admitting it and agreeing with God confessing it, acknowledging it fully, then and this is the important part. Forsaking those old ways and "changing" them and adopting new, better ways, ways more pleasing to God and, ultimately better for your own self as well. This is what Esau did not do and could not find or attain to like Jacob did.

Real change, true and genuine repentance is what is important to God, both in the Old and New testaments. Your perhaps many tears and a lot of crying out and getting very emotional with God only matters if it helps you repent or "change". Without change none of it really matters.

Now some might say "well I've generally been mostly good most of life, why do I need to change, I'm mostly good already?" I would say "Really? Mostly good compared to what? Or who? Compared to the law and the truth of humanity from scripture? Compared to God? Are you still good compared to that?" (Most of these kind of people are not being very genuinely or truly honest with themselves, others, or God though most do not even know it (yet) but, if God cares about them, they will, in time...)

God Bless!

Oh, also, Esau did not value his birthright or inheritance (blessing) from his Father, like Jacob did... To Jacob, he valued it more than anything else, Esau did not... Jacob was so obsessed with it, that it permeated his dreams, when he wrestled with the angel, possibly the Lord and would not stop or let him go till he first blessed him... Which is another, the other reason also...

1) Hebrews 12:17 is not about Esau repenting of his sins and yet not finding repentance. This verse is about Esau attempting to get his father Issac to repent/change his mind about the blessing given to Jacob but Issac would not repent/change his mind. Note how the ASV translates this verse "For ye know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected; for he found no place for a change of mind in his father, though he sought it diligently with tears." See Genesis 27:34-41 how Esau cried, begged and pleaded with his father Issac about giving him the blessing.

God promises forgiveness to any that sincerely repent and seek forgiveness, therefore it is not impossible for anyone to find forgiveness from God according to His word.

2) this context in Heb 12:17 does not say either way if Esau was lost or saved. It just speaks to the fact that the giving of the blessing could not be reversed/changed/repented of. The lesson to be learned here is that some choices we make cannot ever be changed, we just have to learn to live with our choices whether they be good or bad. One should make certain of the welfare of their spiritual condition before it is too late to be changed.

3) as other have already posted, 'hate' as used in biblical parlance does not always mean an emotional type of hate but can mean less favor or love less per Genesis 29:30-31. Furthermore in Romans 9:13 Paul was quoting from Malachi 1:3. By this time both Jacob and Esau had been dead for many centuries. Therefore the prophet Malachi is not talking about the individuals Jacob and Esau but speaking about their descendants Israel and Edom. Mal 1:2 it was Israel that ask how God loves "US"-Israel. Verse 4 "The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever". It was the people Edom that God 'hated' and not Esau the individual. As far as Esau the individual he made amends with Jacob (Genesis 33:4). Jacob and Esau dwelled together in the land of Canaan and their possessions became so great the land could not contain them, so God blessed Esau with Mt Seir (Genesis 36:6-8). God destroying the inhabitants of Mt Seir and giving Esau Mt Seir as a possession (Deuteronomy 2:5,22) was a blessing of God to Esau and not 'hate' that God had for Esau.

4) As far as God's 'hate' for Edom, that 'hate' was not something that was random, unconditional or predetermined before the world began apart from the will and actions of the Edomites. Ezekiel 25:12-13 God's hate against Edom was for their wicked actions they took against their brethren the Israelites. If one looks at the entire chapter of Ezekiel 25 at all the different people that God took judgment against (Edomites, Ammonites, Philistines ), that judgment was never a result of a capricious, unconditional choice God made before the world began apart from the will of those people. But that judgment came about due to the sin/wickedness those people willfully committed.

 

[Sine Nomine]

I think that the question of Esau's relationship with God (i.e. In or out) is a fruitless argument. We are not told about Esau's relationship with God, other than the fact that God chose Jacob (before they were born). Malachi 1:3 can be read as an invective against Israel--where God is saying "haven't I blessed you but been the enemy of Esau's people and land, even though they were brothers"

Paul's point is different, but is NOT about God's feelings or treatment toward Esau but about God choosing how to effect salvation.

6It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”b 8In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”c

10Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”d 13Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”e

So, in context, we are not being told that Esau was particularly unrepentant and that God therefore hated him. Instead we are told that God chooses to work His salvation as he chooses, not by right of descent. By extension, the ultimate chosen one is Christ who reconciles men with God.

 

[Hank77]

God hated Esau. You know we are to hate our parents, children etc. "Hate" here has nothing to do with hate, but all to do with that God chose that Jacob would be the father to God's chosen people.

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple. /Luk 14:26

Thanks....
This is a good example where the same Greek word is used for 'hate'. When it is used comparing two things, as it is here and in the Esau/Jacob verse it is actually to 'loveless'.
Jesus didn't mean that we should actually 'hate' our family members but that we should love them less than we love Him.

 

[sdowney717]

Esau could not find repentance, even though with tears. Simply means Esaus was not granted repentance. Esau was not granted to repent with God, because Esau was rejected and Jacob accepted, and that is according to the will of the the Divinity.
If you are granted by God to repent, this means your relationship with God is repaired, your sins are forgiven, and you will have eternal life. This simply was not possible for Esau as God specifically says, He will have compassion on whomever He will and that means He can choose to not be compassionate and lead a person to repentance and faith with Him. A shepherd herds His sheep. But if your not of Him according to Him foreknowing and predestining you, you will not be granted to repent and know the truth.
God deals with people as individual regarding them being saved or not.

Both Jacob and Esau had issues in their personal life, and the message from God is it is up to Him whether you will be granted repentance or not, this is not of yourselves seeing that repentance is a granted individual gift according to His will and not ours.. There is no redeemable qualities to the lost soul that earns them God's favor. God chooses to love Jacob and God chooses to hate Esau, and truth is look at what Esau actually does, he is a profane fornicator who cares nothing for God.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

Hi N777, for your consideration concerning God and Esau (and others):

11 though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
12 it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.”
13 Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.” ~Romans 9​

Do you think god foresaw that Jacob would do right and not Esau?

 

[St_Worm2]

Do you think god foresaw that Jacob would do right and not Esau?

Hi Far Side God knew exactly what each boy would do before they did it, but this passage of Scripture goes to great lengths to tell us that His choice concerning them was not based upon anything they did (or rather, would do), yes?

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

--David

 

[zoidar]

When it is used comparing two things, as it is here and in the Esau/Jacob verse it is actually to 'loveless'.

I would say to "choose less".

God loved Esau just as much as he loved Jacob. God loves everyone equally, as he in love gave his Son to Easu, just as much as to Jacob. He didn't give 50% of his Son to Esau, and 100% to Jacob. No his sacrifice at the cross proves that he loves everyone equally.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

 

[Hank77]

I would say to "choose less".

God loved Esau just as much as he loved Jacob. God loves everyone equally, as he in love gave his Son to Easu, just as much as to Jacob. He didn't give 50% of his Son to Esau, and 100% to Jacob. No his sacrifice at the cross proves that he loves everyone equally.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

I agree with you that salvation has been equally offered to all people without favoritism.

 

[lee-johnson]

I believe we should:
1. Understand and empathise with what we did wrong.
2. Repent with those affected and/or those close, e.g. family.
3. Seek forgiveness for our misdeeds AND try to forgive ourselves, by:
i. Changing our ways so not to repeat but to better ourselves and improve.
ii. Redeem ourselves through good deed / works.