Error in the NT. The field of blood.

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Homie

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In the 1st chapter of the Acts Peter says that Judas Iscariot died by falling when walking in his field that he bought for the 30 silver coins, his guts spilled over the field and that is why it is known as the field of blood.

Act 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

But in the gospel according to Mathew Judas throws the coins into the tempel because he regrets what he has done. The priests buy a farm for the money, bloodmoney, and therefore the field is called the field of blood. And Judas dies by hanging himself. What story is correct?
 

snerkel

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Originally posted by Homie
But in the gospel according to Mathew Judas throws the coins into the tempel because he regrets what he has done. The priests buy a farm for the money, bloodmoney, and therefore the field is called the field of blood. And Judas dies by hanging himself. What story is correct?

The way I understand it, even though Judas returned the money to the priests and elders, the money still belonged to Judas. So technically, it was Judas' money which purchased the field.  

Both verses are correct. According to the Syriac, Arabic, and Ethiopic versions, he hanged himself, the rope broke (no specific time period is given for this happening) and then he fell and his bowels were spilled.
 
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kern

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Certainly possible. It seems clear to me that the author of Matthew and the author of Acts were working off of different traditions of Judas' death. This is the simplest explanation of the differences and does not require a lot of hand-wringing to get things to work out right.

-Chris
 
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Homie

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But the author of Acts was not necessarily misinformed, it was Peter who was misinfomred, the author of Acts quoted Peter, even if what he says seems to be incorrect (or Matthew)

Is Matthias (who in Acts 1 was appointed to be the 12th apostel by Peter) the author of the gospel of Mathew. Is Mathew and Matthias the same?
 
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kern

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Depends on who you talk to. I think that neither are the author of the gospel of Matthew; that the author was someone writing in around 70 AD, drawing on oral sources as well as written ones (perhaps including the Gospel of Mark). He was inspired by God in this process, so we can be sure that in this process of selection he chose the stories and traditions which communicated the truths of Jesus' teachings.

-Chris
 
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snerkel

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Originally posted by Homie
That seems sort of like grasping for an answear. Mathew says that the priests did buy it after having a counsel. Is it possible that Peter simply was misinformed?

I see no reason to believe Peter was misinformed. It is possible that Peter had more knowledge about the situation after Judas hanged himself than Matthew. I do not see them as contradictory, I see them as complimenting each other. One offering information that the other may or may not have had at the time.

The priests took council (discussed the situation) because they knew they could not keep the money because it was blood money. As I stated earlier, even though Judas returned the money, technically the money was still his and I believe that is the reason the Scripture states that Judas purchased the field with the reward of his iniquity.
 
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snerkel

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Originally posted by Homie
Is Matthias (who in Acts 1 was appointed to be the 12th apostel by Peter) the author of the gospel of Mathew. Is Mathew and Matthias the same?

They are not the same person. If you look at Acts 1:13, you will Matthew as being listed with the Apostles and as being a participant in the casting of lots to pick Matthias as a replacement for Judas.

  
 
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Homie

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In my head; when you throw away the money they are no longer technically yours, and if somebody finds them and buys a chevy for them, it certainly doesn't mean that I bought a chevy.

And even if you are correct the stories still are different: Because Matthew claims it was called the "field of blod" because it was bought with bloodmoney and Peter claims it was called the "field of blod" because Judas's guts spilled out over the field.
 
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judge

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8th February 2003 at 03:05 PM Homie said this in Post #1

In the 1st chapter of the Acts Peter says that Judas Iscariot died by falling when walking in his field that he bought for the 30 silver coins, his guts spilled over the field and that is why it is known as the field of blood.

Act 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

But in the gospel according to Mathew Judas throws the coins into the tempel because he regrets what he has done. The priests buy a farm for the money, bloodmoney, and therefore the field is called the field of blood. And Judas dies by hanging himself. What story is correct?

Hi homie,

I believe the solution to this lies in the fact that there are two different fields.

In Matthew 27:5 we read..
"So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself."

In Acts 1:18-19 however we read..
"(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)"  In both the ancient greek and ancient Aramaic texts different words are used to describe two different fieldsIn the Aramaic and in the greek two different words are used to describe two different fields.
The word used in Aramaic in Matthew is "srwg" and the word used in the greek is "agros" (field). But the word used in acts is "lgx" in Aramaic and "chorion" in the greek.How could Judas have used the thirty pieces of silver to purchase the field. The answer is he could not have. Judas was the treasurer, but also a thief. The "reward of his iniquity" that he used to purchase the property was money that he stole.
See ." John 12:6b - "he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein."


IIn 1 corinthians 15:3-5 we are told...
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve." This appearance "to the twelve" happens after Matthew 27:5. How is this so? Did Judas die twice? I do not believe so. I believe the verse in matthew does not speak of Judas's death but rather that he was "choked with grief". It would be similar to someone today "hanging their head in shame". This figurative usage of the greek word "apancho" (apanchomai) can be verified in the the writings of Aristophanes, vespae 686

 

For further evidence that Judas was alive after the "hanging", compare Luke 24:33 with John 20:24.

Jesus appears to the eleven in Luke 24:33 but in John 20:24 we find out that it was Thomas who was absent. This means that Judas must have been there.

The entire "contradiction" is resolved by realizing that one word should be figurative. When judas "hung" himself he didn't tie a rope around his neck and kick a chair out from under himself. As far as I can tell this was not a way people killed themselves in those days (unlike today).

 

It appears that early greek translators saw that the greek word apanchomoai may give the impression that perhaps Judas had died, so they sought to clarify with another word.

the following texts used "apoechumi" meaning to wish a thing away.MSS 803,875,1415,1608,2521 and 2539

One maunscript used the greek word "apognigo" meaning to choke with vexation or rage.(I'll have to check which one). And MSS 827 uses the greek word "pnignalion" meaning to lead away.

As already mentioned above the classical writings of Aristophanes include usegae of the more common word "apanchomai" in a figurative sense, when we do the same all problems vanish.
 
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FOMWatts<><

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I think it mighty dangerous when we start saying that authors of the Bible are misinformed. It isn't a great idea to find answer in saying that the God's chosen authors didn't get the story correct just for the sake of answering someone's question.

The historical fact is that he did hang himself, but the money that he gave back to the priests was used to purchase a field.(The next part is what is said to have happened) Judas was carried to this field to be buried and when he crossed onto his property his bowels spewed from within and spilled all over the place. Now was this due to heat or was this part of God's plan? I don't know, but I might ask when I sit at his feet one day, but I doubt I'll care :D

FOMWatts<><
 
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EPHRIAM777

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Homie said

In the 1st chapter of the Acts Peter says that Judas Iscariot died by falling when walking in his field that he bought for the 30 silver coins, his guts spilled over the field and that is why it is known as the field of blood.

Act 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

But in the gospel according to Mathew Judas throws the coins into the tempel because he regrets what he has done. The priests buy a farm for the money, bloodmoney, and therefore the field is called the field of blood. And Judas dies by hanging himself. What story is correct? [/B]


Eph writes...

BOTH are correct....Judas threw the money back in..the Priests took it and purchased the field "on his behalf"...They weren't allowed to spend it as their own....and HE Judas ended up hanging himself from a tree IN that field and had his guts blow all over the place when he fell from the tree and his guts burst open...!

Notice the account in MATT 27:3:8...is quite clear on that..THEY bought the field..and that field was called "the field of blood"...

Gods word rings true in both accounts..!

PS...I notice you ADDED to Gods word to build your case up a bit...ACTS 1:18 never says Judas was "walking"..at all...!
 
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Dee Dee Warren

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Hello Everyone.. ironically this very same subject is being discussed at my home forum. The idea proposed is that Matthew was using a typological reference to an OT figure of a shameful death and that the hanging was not meant to be interpreted literally and that Luke was using a high context approach in describing how the field got its name... ie he was referring both to the spilling of the blood and the blood money. I could provide the link to the discussion if anyone is interested.

Homie, in reading your comments, it seems like the focus is on the same thing... not just the manner of death but the reason why the field got its name.
 
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Dee Dee Warren

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Dear Judge:

Thank you so much for the greeting!! Yes, I am have been well though I have gone through quite upheavel lately.... but here is the link to the discussion that I referred to:

http://theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=618

The issues are getting in depth, and I speak a bit on the naming of the field issue.

Homie, perhaps some of it will address your concerns.
 
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EPHRIAM777

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Yesterday at 05:44 PM Dee Dee Warren said this in Post #16 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=647167#post647167)

Hello Everyone.. ironically this very same subject is being discussed at my home forum. The idea proposed is that Matthew was using a typological reference to an OT figure of a shameful death and that the hanging was not meant to be interpreted literally and that Luke was using a high context approach in describing how the field got its name... ie he was referring both to the spilling of the blood and the blood money. I could provide the link to the discussion if anyone is interested.


Eph writes...

I might stop by to clean things up a bit....seems the study your in has lost it's tires..your ridin on rims and headin for the "bridge that is out" with NO brakes..no steering wheel....downhill....!

Would you allow sound teaching into this group..???
 
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Homie

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Eph
PS...I notice you ADDED to Gods word to build your case up a bit...ACTS 1:18 never says Judas was "walking"..at all...!
I just assumed he was, but I noticed my error afterwards, maybe I should have corrected it. Thank you for pointing it out :)

A lot of theories here. It seems that the one theory that the majority here agrees with is that: The priests purchased it on his behalf. Or, he purchased it even though technically the priests did.
I think this is the theory that has the most flaws. First of all, it seems a bit "far fetched" to say that it was "technically" Judas that purchased the field even though he threw the money into the temple. Secondly, this does not adress the issue that Peter claims it was called the "field of blood" because of the spilling of Judas's guts and Matthew claims it was called the "field of blood" because it was purchased with blood money. So I think this theory falls short.

Personally I think judges's theory seems to be the correct one (even though it is complicated). If I understand correctly; Dee Dee and the judge have reached the same conclusion. Have I understood it correctly?

As far as I can tell this was not a way people killed themselves in those days (unlike today).
Strange, since today we have guns and back then they didn't. How would they kill themselves back then?
 
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