Equal authority of Tradition to Scripture

calmcoolandelected · Jul 20, 2006

WA,

I owe you an apology. I had a rather short fuse with you earlier in the week and for that I am sorry. I have been sick this week and that was a contributing factor to my shortness. It is not an excuse for me being "snippy" with you, and for that I am sorry.

In Christ,
CC&E

Robskiwarrior · Jul 20, 2006

Theophorus said:
If you wish to play semantics that is fine. The "congregation"/community was established by Christ. Of course we have the Saints which shows we have a true undestanding as well as eveidence of the manifestation of this congregation.

The ekklesia is built upon Christ, the first born of many brethren.

"The Called out" yup I dont like the word Church, mainly because the only linguistic basis for church is the name of the Anglo-Saxon sungoddess Circe, the daughter of Helios. Her name was pronounced Chirch, and it also gave rise to the English words circle and circus.

Robskiwarrior · Jul 20, 2006

Trento said:
It looks like you ignore Christian History even by non Catholic Scholars.

I have dug alot into the history of the startings of the "Church" - I must say I am in no way attacking catholics at all, we have all been duped and misslead by power hungry leaders.

Ekklesia should have been transliterated as so, but they replaced the name with a pagan gods, like so many other things.

Its very sad indeed.

Thank you for your responce though

racer · Jul 20, 2006

Would somebody--puhleeez--take the Batman Videos from WA?

WarriorAngel · Jul 20, 2006

calmcoolandelected said:
WA,

I owe you an apology. I had a rather short fuse with you earlier in the week and for that I am sorry. I have been sick this week and that was a contributing factor to my shortness. It is not an excuse for me being "snippy" with you, and for that I am sorry.

In Christ,
CC&E

Thank you sweetie. I appreciate your candor and humbleness, and if I hurt you I also apologise.

WarriorAngel · Jul 20, 2006

racer said:
Would somebody--puhleeez--take the Batman Videos from, WA?

:o WHAT??

You cannot have them....

Guys....anyone.... My toys are being taken from me.
Holy Cow Batman, I am in trouble now.

Robskiwarrior · Jul 20, 2006

How did batmans mum call him for his tea?

Dinner dinner dinner dinner BATMAN!

Sorry... could not resist...

ETide · Jul 20, 2006

Theophorus said:
Why don't they get it ETide? They have not bothered to read the scriptures they placed into the cannon of your bible?

The Church is not just a hypothetical assembly of ununited beliefs. If you claim that is the teaching of the NT I could tediously list for you a miriad of verses to the contrary.

Theo, please show us the myriad of verses which teach that the Orthodox church is the church of God.. that would be great.. thanks.

It's not my Church. But should I accept the teachings of the ancient church on what constitutes unity of faith, or yours which relegates everything to being a symbol or a shadow, such as communion and baptism.

FYI, the shadow was the law and the prophets and the nation of Isreal. The shadows and the veil have been lifted and Christ is manifested in the Church. You do remember that Christ said to Paul when he was persecuting the Church, "Why do you persecute Me?" And that Paul later says that Christ loves the Church and nourishes as His own flesh?

Again Theo, please show us the myriad of verses which teach that the Orthodox church is the church of God..

What this prayer has to do with pride having a hard time accepting the titles for the Pope or clergy is beyond me.

The Spirit of God within a man is a light that reveals the righteousness of Christ, and also the wretchedness of who we are.. as Paul would say.. O wretched man that I am..

For someone to allow the title of his most holiness, or holy father.. says alot, doesn't it.. I can't imagine the Spirit of God being in a man who would allow that title..

But hey, that's me..

The fact of the matter is Christ's prayer was for unity grounded in truth. If you think that a oneness pentacostal shares this unity with an independant baptist, thern the burden of proof lies with you.

Again Theo.. and obviously you don't get this.. the body of Christ is unified with CHRIST because they have CHRIST IN THEM, their hope of glory.. so I can say with every other born again believer on this planet who has Christ in them, that I am in Christ, and Chist is in me.. to the praise of the glory of His grace..

I wish that you could say the same friend..

WarriorAngel · Jul 20, 2006

Robskiwarrior said:
How did batmans mum call him for his tea?

Dinner dinner dinner dinner BATMAN!

Sorry... could not resist...

I smile in charity. But I just didnt get it.

Edit to add; if this is from his theme music...you better keep your day job.... lol

WarriorAngel · Jul 20, 2006

Etide, the Eastern Church is also from Apostolic succession.

There was One Church...One set of Apostles.

I will let Theo continue on with the EO view.

racer · Jul 20, 2006

Robskiwarrior said:
How did batmans mum call him for his tea?

Dinner dinner dinner dinner BATMAN!

Sorry... could not resist...

calmcoolandelected · Jul 20, 2006

WarriorAngel said:
Thank you sweetie. I appreciate your candor and humbleness, and if I hurt you I also apologise.

Thank you for your kindness. No, you did not hurt me. I was tired and should not have posted at all that day. I felt that since I was publically rude, I should apologize publically. I would rather be remembered for being a thoughtful poster/debater than a mean one.

CC&E

WarriorAngel · Jul 20, 2006

racer said:

I think he was ahem...doing the old batman theme.

WarriorAngel · Jul 20, 2006

calmcoolandelected said:
Thank you for your kindness. No, you did not hurt me. I was tired and should not have posted at all that day. I felt that since I was publically rude, I should apologize publically. I would rather be remembered for being a thoughtful poster/debater than a mean one.

CC&E

Dont forget to take care of yourself.

racer · Jul 20, 2006

WarriorAngel said:
I think he was ahem...doing the old batman theme.

Thank you!

ETide · Jul 20, 2006

WarriorAngel said:
Etide, the Eastern Church is also from Apostolic succession.

So you say.. what's his name..? His Most Holiness.. is that it..?

There was One Church...One set of Apostles.

Newsflash.. there still is one church. It's Christ's church.

I will let Theo continue on with the EO view.

Theo and the EO view..

Asinner · Jul 20, 2006

Christianity or the Church? A set of teachings or the Incarnate Christ? Symbolism or Flesh and Blood?

Without the Church, the visible (physical, tangible) and spiritual Body of Christ, one is left with a set of principles and teachings. The need for the Church has been done away with and replaced with a symbolic Baptism and Eucharist. It is Gnostic.

It is not Tradition or Scripture, it is His Church, in which the fullness of Christ is manifest; where Tradition and Scripture are practiced and brought to life. Salvation is not found in a set of ideals, it is found in the Incarnate Son of God.

God Bless

Theophorus · Jul 20, 2006

ETide said:
Theo, please show us the myriad of verses which teach that the Orthodox church is the church of God.. that would be great.. thanks.

The point, which you ignore, is that the true Church is unified. And this is possible by the work of the Holy Spirit, but it also means that it is real. That means the Church is unified in faith and practice, and dogma. Like I said before, oness pentacostals do not shre this type of unity with independent baptists. According to you they are unified anyway. But according to scripture they are not.

Psalm 133

1Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

2It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

3As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

Eph4
4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;...
5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, ...
13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Rom 12:16[Be] of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

Rom 15
5Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
6That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Cr 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Cor 12:13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

2 cor 13:11Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Phl 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Phl 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, [being] of one accord, of one mind.

15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

Phl 4:2 I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.

1 Pet 3:8Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

The Spirit of God within a man is a light that reveals the righteousness of Christ, and also the wretchedness of who we are.. as Paul would say.. O wretched man that I am..

For someone to allow the title of his most holiness, or holy father.. says alot, doesn't it.. I can't imagine the Spirit of God being in a man who would allow that title..

But hey, that's me..

Really? I thought most protestants teach the sainthood of believers and that every one is holy, and set apart. You claim the title for yourself, yet judge others for the same thing.

Again Theo.. and obviously you don't get this.. the body of Christ is unified with CHRIST because they have CHRIST IN THEM, their hope of glory.. so I can say with every other born again believer on this planet who has Christ in them, that I am in Christ, and Chist is in me.. to the praise of the glory of His grace..

So a oness pentacostal and an independent baptist have one mind, one faith, one baptism and one spirit? They teach different spirits, different faiths, different baptisms and are not of one mind.
I'll have to go with the scriptures on this one.

CaliforniaJosiah · Jul 20, 2006

WarriorAngel said:
Ever wonder why your sect is so small? Because its rather new. The numbers are another way to tell how OLD an institution is. Ancient in fact.

Just some thoughts....

I respectfully disagree with you.

1. While I esteem Tradition - that historic, ecumenical consensus of God's people who are the church - I don't embrace it as the norma normans for itself. But we just disagree on that.

2. If your epistemological principle now is that whoever shouts the longest or the loudest is therefore correct, then I disagree. If such were the case, you'd be arguing for us to all return to Judaism (although some argue that Hinduism is older yet, and native religions even older - but I disagree; ah, "louder" and "longer" that what/who?).

3. If your epistemological principle is whoever is bigger is correct, then Christianity was wrong for centuries. In fact, it may have been correct only for a relatively short time since 1600, and may only be for a short while since many think that Islam will be passing us up in this century.

- Josiah

.

Theophorus · Jul 20, 2006

WarriorAngel said:
:o WHAT??

You cannot have them....

Guys....anyone.... My toys are being taken from me.
Holy Cow Batman, I am in trouble now.

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