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Certainly. They vary among themselves. However, there is none that operates in the same way as the first Christian churches did, with respect to the points you yourself raised, such as garb and officers.There are definitely differences in that category among protestant denominations.
With respect you never do give facts Albion: you give a sanitized anglican whitewash.
And since I have lived both sides of the fence I am not adhering to a "storyline" that I was "brought up with", since that was the anglican!
The anglican position is inconsistent and incoherent. Take on the eucharist: it cannot be both pneumatic and corporeal, and depending on where you go to in low chuch anglican even near "symbolic" will do as a eucharistic doctrine seemingly which is certainly protestant. In the real world there is but one truth. You do not get to chose what it is by choosing high or low church.
Also the anglican view on the succession is incoherent. Which is why the doctrine is also variable depending on who you speak to. It cut itself away from the root so parts of it drift.
I accept that for anglican to claim succession, it must defend the continuation in succession of those who repudiated their allegiance to those who ordained them. But it is ridiculous logic. And it can never excuse that those same people who took Henry 8 demonic oath then persecuted and murdered catholic priests who clearly did have valid succession. How does that work: at very least a church which claims succession, must respect others who have the same claim.
They clearly didnt as the brutal murders of catholic priests in the english martyrs show. Anglicans need to consider whether their historic actions speak louder than their subsequent words. It was a black period and For sure many within catholic church have committed their own outrages for which they are also culpable.
But the test of anglican "succession" fails in the failure to respect the same succession of others. In denying the succession of others during the reign of henry 8 they are denying their own succession by demonstrating their indifference to the meaning of it
Then is the question of the articles - how many are there? - history shows the man made tradition of the anglican church has varied over time. Articles Variable in number and content, drifting from near calvinist (so clearly protestant) to near catholic depending on the whims of the monarch. I repeat , there can only be one truth.
It is not a good foundation. And that lack of foundation is what sent many of us back to Rome looking for consistency.
I have much respect for my anglican brethren.
There are many holy folk amongst them, I do not prosyletize, or judge them, In the end its not me they must convince:
I just defend catholicism where it is attacked.
But consistency on doctrine is not an anglican strong suit, and the claims to succession are at very best tenuous : and not a good platform from which to preach holier than thou!, or to claim that "others" do not "understand". Understanding the anglican position on many issues relies on cognitive dissonance.
i am taught that god dislikes images, for me jesus is alive and glorified, not nailed on a cross anymore.
You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. (Ex. 20:4-6)
In that they, like say - Baptists, Pentecostals and Reformed - are "protesting things found in Roman Catholicism ----- the answer is yes they are protestants.Episcopal and Anglican, are protestant?...want to know
The Catholic Church also refuses to call "non-Catholic" denominations by the word church!
So some decide that that means they can ignore the commandments of God then?You would have to explain than why God commanded Cerub to be placed on the ark and a snake to be crafted and the children of Israel gaze upon it. Actually iconoclasm was condemned as heresy at a Church council
Yet in the Gospels, we still read of Christ being crucified. What is the difference between reading of it in the text of the Gospels and reading of it on the walls or Windows of the church? You speak as though we should remove those parts from the Gospels.i am taught that god dislikes images, for me jesus is alive and glorified, not nailed on a cross anymore.
Former lead guitarist of Metallica Dave Mustaine became a born again Christian and renounced the music as black metal & satanic.I agree with a lot of what you said here and I believe you are correct. Modern Anglicanism hasn't any internal consistency. Anglicanism according to its classical formulation is without a doubt Protestant. Reformed theology had a large influence on the formation of the Church of England. The 39 articles of religion (1571), the two books of Homilies, the classic Book of Common Prayer (1662), the writings of the early Anglican divines such as Cranmer, Lattimer, Ridley are all a testimony to this fact. They all deny Roman Catholic distinctive like the sacrifice of the Mass, transubstantiation and the corporal presence of Christ in the elements of communion, supererogation, purgatory and the like. What became the Anglo-catholic movement dates from the mid-19th century and is a straight up revision of history. The modern Anglican claim that his/her church is neither Roman Catholic nor Protestant is a result of this historical mashup. To be clear, my criticism is with the Anglican church and not Anglicans themselves.
Speaking of mashup:
Yes.Episcopal and Anglican, are protestant?
Yet in the Gospels, we still read of Christ being crucified. What is the difference between reading of it in the text of the Gospels and reading of it on the walls or Windows of the church? You speak as though we should remove those parts from the Gospels.
In most Orthodox churches, the main events of Christ's incarnation, ministry, death, resurrection and glorious ascension are depicted in art on the walls of the church. It is often referred to as the Gospel for the illiterate. I think in this day and age we take literacy for granted.
We don't "dress as" priests. We are priests.
The litmus test of orthodoxy on CF is adherence to the Nicene Creed, which Anglicans certainly do.
Yes, but that's the Catholic Church. It can scorn the clergy of any other church if it chooses, and that's an "in house" position. It doesn't have anything to do with the validity or invalidity of those other churches and their lines of Apostolic Succession, if any.
The Catholic Church also refuses to call "non-Catholic" denominations by the word church!
The topic here is not about what the Catholic Church wants to think of other Christian churches, however. No more than the fact the Jehovah's Witnesses consider both the Catholic Church and the Anglican churches to be Satanic. So what?
The Nicene Creed is the basis on a website for the definition of a Christian.
Um, not exactly. He became a born again Christian and refuses to play certain songs like “The Conjuring” for obvious reasons but he still plays a goodly amount of his previous work. In fact he along with Megadeth were playing shows with Metallica long after his conversion.Former lead guitarist of Metallica Dave Mustaine became a born again Christian and renounced the music as black metal & satanic.
What I said...is that the Catholic Church (and the Pope himself, plus some of the members here) have a policy of not CALLING Protestant churches by the word church. They are often referred to instead by the ridiculous term "ecclesial communities." You informed us that there is no element of scorn involved with doing this, it should also be noted.That's not true. That Catholic Church believes that those with apostolic succession are Churches.
You can say , not exactly all you want, he later denounced both.Um, not exactly. He became a born again Christian and refuses to play certain songs like “The Conjuring” for obvious reasons but he still plays a goodly amount of his previous work. In fact he along with Megadeth were playing shows with Metallica long after his conversion.
The point of the video was to show what a mashup is. The music was incidental.
You have no idea of what you are talking about on either case.You can say , not exactly all you want, he later denounced both.
I don't care for satanic music , and certainly wouldn't post it on a Christian forum.
Lumen Gentium is the teaching of the Church, and fully recognizes those "ecclesial communities" as being composed of genuine Christians. And that's really all that should matter.
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