What then? If those things are not instructions for me to practice, is there anything in the Bible that is written directly to me? Now I live in the year 2004 according to the calendar. I am not of Jewish descent. I am a gentile and according to the Bible I live during the time that is called “the dispensation of the grace of God”.
And how do you know that you do not have some ancestor who was 'jewish'? And why would it matter? There is only one commandment that saves, Believe in God and Christ and his atonement to rememdy being our dead in sins.
You would say that it would not matter in the "present" economy, but will matter in a future economy. Is there presently 2 economies since the physical re-estblishment of pseudo-Israel??
Proof for my point of Jewish and gentile congregations.
1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they [have] of the Jews:
Ro 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
6 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
28 When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain.
The Major difference in Jewish and Gentile churches were that the population of that area before become a church in Christ was prodominately either Jewish or Gentile population. After conversion and after Christ, there is "as Paul mentions at least 4 places... no more jew or gentile divisions in Christ. The jewish converts would begin to live apart from the ordinances and laws while the gentile converts would begin to live apart from the godless world.
The difference of Jew and Gentile before Christ is commented upon in the verses of chapter 2. The Gentiles were once far off, but have been brought near through the abolishment of the law.
Comments on Eph 2:11 & 12 while reading in context of pertinent verses.
Eph 2:1 & 2 and then 2:11 & 12.
1.And you
[hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2Wherein
in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3
11:Wherefore remember, that ye [being]
in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12:That
at that time ye were without Christ,
being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
In the KJV, they say;
being aliens etc. The wording seems to equate being an alien from the commonwealth of Israel as being without Christ, but that would indicate that being a non jew was without Christ, and being a jew was to be with Christ. We know from other writings (Rom 10) that position would be incorrect at least according to being a jew of the flesh only.
Question, Is the reason that they were 'without Christ
because they were;
aliens from the (physical) commonwealth of Israel, stangers from the covenants of promise, hopeless and without God in the world.
Are those the reasons that they were without Christ?
Or are those the results of being without Christ?
Is the reason they were without hope and without God in the world because they were aliens from the (physical)commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the (knowledge about the) covenants of promise.
Or
because they were without Christ(unquickened) vs 1,
They did not need to become familiar with Israel before believing in God's son. The God (creator) fearing gentiles would have been the Gentiles called unto Christ and salvation.
remember Paul has said that God forseeing that the heathen would be justified preached
the gospel (the everlasting gospel) to Abraham saying, in you will all the nations of the earth be blessed.
and Paul has also said:
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
And: And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
John 3:16. For God so loved the Jews... ooops.. world, that he gave his only begotten son that whatever jew......oops.. whosover believeth in him should not perish.
Paul includes himself (a former Jew) in the same boat as those apparent "Gentiles" with respect to being once outside of Christ and dead in sins.
verse 3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God,
who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when
we were dead in sins,
hath quickened us together with Christ, (by
grace ye are saved
Here Grace is closely associated with Mercy and Love poured out from God even while we (Jews) were dead in sins.
Thus GRACE is not God's inclusion of the Gentiles into his plan of salvation, but rather Grace is God's quickening and calling unto himself people to himself through faith, not by works. Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, (dead in sins) that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
This verse and a reading of Eph 1:10 within the context of the entire chapter indicate to me that the "economy" of the fullness of time, has occured with the present fullness of Christ. The last few verses of chapter one support this as exposed before.
We continue:
2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
Notice that he didnt' break down something of the Gentiles but rather he abolished the Jewish law of commandments contained in ordinances. Those who Jews who put their faith in the ordinaces were (are) also outside of saving faith. Paul mentions this in Galatians that the Law was powerless to save. Sacrifices and offering did not save either, but were a shadow of the reality of Christ confirming and verifying the Messiah.
2:16, And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Notrash, you are trying hard to miss the point of this epistle and fit it's message into a preconceived theological system that would be in danger of being exposed as false doctrine if you were to accept the truths Paul presents here.
Nope, dont' have any "preconceived theological systems". And I'm trying very much to hold to the truth of the intent of the letter without being "indoctrinated' into a false preconceived or indoctrinated theological system.
I believe also that part of the purpose of the Epistle to the Ephesians is to confirm, cultivate and support the ephesians salvation experience by comparing and verifying it against that of "those who first believed" and also to encourage the development of behavior and moral character in keeping with being called into God's family in Christ unto whom the unsearchable riches of Christ and all spiritual blessings are given.
You can deny this is a difference in the administration of God, a difference he had planned and purposed and that he has designated as the dispensation of the grace of God until eternity rolls and it will be you who will be proven to be the fool.
I am not trying to make anyone or prove anyone a "fool". What is it that Christ says about calling others 'fools'.?
The bold, underlined Part is the major point of disagreement. God's saving plan, his Mercy, Grace, love for man and his self glorification through creation and redemption of mankind (not just a single race) has always been.
For God so
LOVED the world that he gave..... Behold, the lamb of God that TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE JEWS.....OOPS.. WORLD.. slain before the foundation of the world.
Eph 3:2, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
As mentioned before, the economy (budgeting, stewardship, giving out, 'dispensation') of grace that was given to Paul for the gentiles was defined in the very next verse. Eph 3:3. How that
by revelation he made known unto me (FROM GOD to Paul, dispensation, budgeting)the mystery;
I dont' feel that the 'mystery' and the giving of grace to Paul to understand the mystery are the same thing.
The Mystery was defined in verse 6.: That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
The economy
of grace of God given to Paul was defined in verse 3.
How that by revelation he made known unto me the Mystery.
Here's a new thought; Paul was not one of the original 12 or even among those who followed Christ. Those disciples had 'the mystery' explained to them by Christ after the resurection when He opened up their minds to understand the scriptures. Christ also commanded them at that time to take the gospel to Jerusalem, judea and the nations. Thus the original disciples had understood 'the mystery' that the gentiles would be joined in although they probably didn't fully understand how and when until Cornelius. Paul on the other hand had his mind opened to understand the mystery of jew/gentile unity during his 3 years of study after his salvation and conversion. I dont' know if it says that Jesus actually appeared to him or weather it was revealed to Paul through his study and through the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit....as Paul says....how by 'revelation'...he made known to me the mystery.
It was a Mystery to many of Israel who relied on their ordinances and the workings of God in their midsts or relied on their sacrifices and Gifts for salvation. Additionally, Jesus and John the Baptist said that God could make sons of Abraham out of stones... so dont' think that their geneological heritage could save them, which apparently many of the unelect believed.
Thus the Grace of God in Christ to the Gentiles was as much of His abolishing the law of commandments and ordinances thereby removing 'power' or religious authority from the accusing Jews leaders. They of course would have attempted to convert 'gentiles' to judaism for salvation. But here is where the Jews where wrong and their table became a snare, as confirmed by Paul in that verse often quoted. All are under faith in God through Christ.
Gal 3:8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
I do not deny at all that there are differences in the Old testament time period and the new testament time period. Obviously we look back on the Cross as the fulfilled bruising of Satan of Gen 3:15 and have a much fuller understanding of Gods plan.
There is also a different ministry of Christ through the Holy Spirit that indwells believers gives Gifts for the upbuilding of the Body of Christ. Colossians says that Christ in you is the hope of Glory.
Neither do I deny that Pauls' primary assignment in ministry was to the non-jew nations, but everywhere he went, it seems that he first discoursed with the Jews. Possibly knowing that they, if they believed would also realize that salvation through the lamb slain, the seed of the woman (eve) and the seed of Abraham would be to all peoples of all nations.
However, I do differ that the "dispensation of Grace" as a time period is what is being specifically referred to in Eph 3:2. If there is a designation for this time period it might be called, the economy of the the fullness (fulfillment) of time and/or the economy abolition of the law for examples or the revelation and economy of Christ.
I am finding that it is perhaps not so much mans attempt to seperate the progressive revelation of God into ages as much as the futurist interpretation and it's re-elevation of physical Israel that I differ with.
Here's a link to a theological dictionary that describes
6 dispensations before the popularity of the futurists camps. Although the writer/editor of this dictionary may have already come into contact with the ideas 1829 was the year of reprint and it was reprinted from the last edition of the volume that came from London. Thus this Charles Buck was a preacher in the pre-darby era of London.
http://books.google.com/books?id=D5...ts=l_umytcFhu&sig=7xFkzpKWaQhTULpgLy8TuSq4qms
Now it's not known which parts of this theology book are original and which were abridged by the editor in 1829 in Philadelphia. I havent' been able to find much info about Rev Buck.
Quoting from the article. The dealing of God with his creatures in his providence is called a dispensation. (note the kjv word usage rather than stewarship or economy). The state of supernatural or revealed theology 'may' also be divided into 6 dispensations.
