EPA's New Coal Pollution Rules: More Death, More Asthma

[ananda]

you haven't established that it's relevant, since interstate commerce has grown substantially since the constitution was written. There's nothing in the constitution requiring that we only concepts as they existed in the 18th century.

We must use the definitions from the 18th century to understand what the writers of the Constitution meant with the words they used.

Allowing air pollution to spread outside the property boundaries of the power plant effectively robs neighbors of their wealth by transferring that negative property & health value from the power plant to neighboring areas.

This is not an example of trading or traffic in commodities; nobody is exchanging commodities for barter.

The constitution is ambiguous on the matter. The courts have decided that some degree of delegation is permissible.

I would have no objection if the EPA was a legislative arm of Congress, delegated with the task of producing recommendations forwarded to Congress for its approval and vote.

 

[ananda]

Actually no. Considering that my "wants" in this case correspond with the best available data and evidence.

Your choice of what you consider the "best available data and evidence" remains your personal opinion.

 

[ananda]

Sure they do since

They have no Constitutional authority to delegate legislative authority to the Executive branch: "All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested [absolute ownership] in a Congress of the United States". That would be like a city giving carte blanche powers to their police to make up and enforce whatever rules they want, whenever they want.

 

[theQuincunx5]

Your choice of what you consider the "best available data and evidence" remains your personal opinion.

Not really. I have a PhD in geology focus on geochemistry of coal and 25 years of work experience in R&D chemistry, so it's a bit more than just my "personal opinion".

 

[ananda]

Not really. I have a PhD in geology focus on geochemistry of coal and 25 years of work experience in R&D chemistry, so it's a bit more than just my "personal opinion".

Good deal. However, your choice of what you consider the "best available data and evidence", along with your preferences based on your choice, all still remains your personal opinion, based on your personal experience.

 

[AirPo]

They have no Constitutional authority to delegate legislative authority to the Executive branch: "All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested [absolute ownership] in a Congress of the United States". That would be like a city giving carte blanche powers to their police to make up and enforce whatever rules they want, whenever they want.

Good thing that's not what they are doing.

 

[Kentonio]

We must use the definitions from the 18th century to understand what the writers of the Constitution meant with the words they used.

Or you could stop hero worshipping a bunch of pre-industrial era slave owners, and focus on building a country that deals with the needs of the 21st rather than the 18th century. Or do modern Americans just think they're less capable than their ancestors?

 

[ananda]

Or you could stop hero worshipping a bunch of pre-industrial era slave owners, and focus on building a country that deals with the needs of the 21st rather than the 18th century. Or do modern Americans just think they're less capable than their ancestors?

Are you promoting anarchy?

The fact is, the Constitution remains organic law for these united States, and if there are needs that it does not address, there is an established, organized way to change it.

If people want a free-for-all situation, I suppose they can move to France or the UK.

 

[Kentonio]

Are you promoting anarchy?

The fact is, the Constitution remains organic law for these united States, and if there are needs that it does not address, there is an established, organized way to change it.

If people want a free-for-all situation, I suppose they can move to France or the UK.

I’m promoting Americans growing up and adapting their constitution to mirror the needs of the citizens of a modern, industrialized superpower. It’s frankly nothing less than pathetic that people still give a moments notice to the intentions of the founders. It’s not their constitution any more, it’s yours, so maybe start taking some responsibility for it.

 

[ananda]

I’m promoting Americans growing up and adapting their constitution to mirror the needs of the citizens of a modern, industrialized superpower. It’s frankly nothing less than pathetic that people still give a moments notice to the intentions of the founders. It’s not their constitution any more, it’s yours, so maybe start taking some responsibility for it.

That would be our, American, internal decision to make.

 

[theQuincunx5]

Good deal. However, your choice of what you consider the "best available data and evidence", along with your preferences based on your choice, all still remains your personal opinion, based on your personal experience.

-Sigh- This is pointless.

 

[Kentonio]

That would be our, American, internal decision to make.

Indeed, if you choose the path of prevarication and cowardice instead then for sure you can continue sitting on your hands having pointless ideological arguments while tens of thousands of your fellow Americans die completely pointlessly.

 

[ananda]

Indeed, if you choose the path of prevarication and cowardice instead then for sure you can continue sitting on your hands having pointless ideological arguments while tens of thousands of your fellow Americans die completely pointlessly.

That is your alien opinion, which is irrelevant to our internal discussions, IMO.

With that said, death is inevitable and unavoidable; how we handle the progress towards death remains infinitely varied, and also subject to personal opinion.

 

[theQuincunx5]

Are you promoting anarchy?

The fact is, the Constitution remains organic law for these united States, and if there are needs that it does not address, there is an established, organized way to change it.

If people want a free-for-all situation, I suppose they can move to France or the UK.

And if there were no Federal mandates, rules and Laws you'd have a point in this debate. But since there are and many of them relate to ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES your position is not grounded in reality.

But more importantly the other poster is correct. There are many things which cannot be bound by some physical barrier or border. AND issues that a 21st century country has to face that require a nationwide, and even GLOBAL focus to deal with.

You studiously avoid any attempt to discuss these things which is telling. It shows that your only interest in some esoteric debate over "states rights" rather than the actual TOPIC at hand.

And as has been pointed out REPEATEDLY now: there are already precedents set for federal rules on pollution and environment that have been in place for nearly half a century now.

They were working quite well which is why you and I never really knew a country that was far worse off for pollution.

But by all means tell us how important states rights are in this particular issue.

 

[Kentonio]

That is your alien opinion, which is irrelevant to our internal discussions, IMO.

With that said, death is inevitable and unavoidable; how we handle the progress towards death remains infinitely varied, and also subject to personal opinion.

You should probably start building pyramids if you want to make America into a death cult. I suppose it gives you another excuse to avoid actually helping people with their real world problems.

 

[theQuincunx5]

Indeed, if you choose the path of prevarication and cowardice instead then for sure you can continue sitting on your hands having pointless ideological arguments while tens of thousands of your fellow Americans die completely pointlessly.

oh it's so much worse than that! America is supposedly the technological leader in the world. We are busy giving that up. We have too many Americans with almost no understanding of basic science and they all get a say in how America gives up its leadership role at a point in history when the West's economies will be destroyed for lack of action.

But at least we'll have had a robust debate about a topic that is basically just a mind-game over a topic America never really got accustomed to...something other than raw individualism. We wouldn't know what a SOCIETY looks like if it bit us in the behind.

 

[theQuincunx5]

That is your alien opinion, which is irrelevant to our internal discussions, IMO.

With that said, death is inevitable and unavoidable; how we handle the progress towards death remains infinitely varied, and also subject to personal opinion.

LOL. So we have someone who is a Constitutional Originalist here who is telling a French person their opinion is "alien". The irony meter is exploding now.

Check who Jefferson et al. was reading and talking to about the time the Constitution was being hammered out. Oh and who was our primary ally during our war of independence?

Yeah.

Alien indeed.

 

[theQuincunx5]

You should probably start building pyramids if you want to make America into a death cult. I suppose it gives you another excuse to avoid actually helping people with their real world problems.

No, we're busy building models of Noah's Ark so we can teach our children false versions of science and reality.

It's too late for us.

 

[ananda]

ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES

Yes, I understand "ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES" is your concern and priority.

Constitutional rule of law is one perspective that color our perspective on any concern.
States and individual rights is another.
Form of government is another.
Political philosophy is yet another.
Etc.

All provide different perspectives on any particular issue.

Your concern and priority may not be the concern or possess the same level of priority for others. Thus, there is the Constitutional rule of law which allow everyone to have a say in the law-making process by providing each of us the ability to express and contribute our own concerns and priorities ... not by dictate of one or a few who think they know better than everyone else.

 

[ananda]

You should probably start building pyramids if you want to make America into a death cult. I suppose it gives you another excuse to avoid actually helping people with their real world problems.

Your perceived problems may not be perceived as problems in others' eyes.