EO and Universalism

[ArmyMatt]

I agree all things come by the Lordship of Christ, but it remains to be see that all things are "Good" as far as we would understand them. Not to say we need to set up categories of good and bad arbitrarily, but surely it is easy to see some things are Good and some things are not on the face of it. I say this because if there are "degrees" of Good and Evil (Bad) then surely somethings are "Good" and some things "lack Goodness" as far as a quality of them is concerned. As far as how this relates to my experience, I really couldn't say. Perhaps you would be willing to walk me through it a bit? I find you to be of respectable character so I wouldn't mind discussing it with you.

sure, if you like

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

"Those Who, Like Origen, Think That Hell Is Not Everlasting, And Thereby Afford Or Offer The Liberty Or Incentive To Sin, Let Him And All Such Persons Be ANATHAMA."

- The Synodikon of Orthodoxy (from the Council of 1583 A.D.)


The Synodikon of Orthodoxy | MYSTAGOGY RESOURCE CENTER

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[ArmyMatt]

"Those who, like Origen, think that hell is not everlasting, and thereby afford or offer the liberty or incentive to sin, let him and all such persons be anathema. -Synodikonthose who, like Origen, think that hell is not everlasting, and thereby afford or offer the liberty or incentive to sin, let him and all such persons be anathema."

- The Synodikon of Orthodoxy (from the Council of 1583 A.D.)


https://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/20...oulos.com/2010/02/synodicon-of-orthodoxy.html

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good find

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

good find

Thanks.


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[ArmyMatt]

no probs!

 

[hedrick]

ArmyMatt, I’ve been trying to follow this, and I’m not clear. Do you think universal reconciliation has been held by orthodox people, and is permissible? Does UR imply that in the end no one will be in hell?

 

[ArmyMatt]

ArmyMatt, I’ve been trying to follow this, and I’m not clear. Do you think universal reconciliation has been held by orthodox people, and is permissible? Does UR imply that in the end no one will be in hell?

it has, depending on what you mean. to say that all WILL be saved (as opposed to all can be) in the sense that there is no hell has been flat out rejected.

 

[abacabb3]

It dawns on me from reading an article that was referred to me that the way EO see things is in fact completely different from what I have understood from my roots. Things such as sin being a therapeutic measure to draw us closer to divinity is in fact completely removed from the way I have historically understood what it means to be "saved". This raises a very perplexing question for me in the question of death, which is not a punishment according to EO but I am not sure how to classify it at all. It seems that EO, though they think they are the True Church, at the same time might even consider themselves Heterodox insofar as learning from our sin is concerned. And of course this leaves the question of what is hell? What is eternal punishment, and further, do all humans make it into heaven, however EO might classify what heaven actually is.

Thanks for your answers on this.

In short, all men are saved, as in all are resurrected. However, our inclination towards God determines how we respond to His grace in the afterlife. If we are faithless and reject grace, then exposure to God will be felt as pain and suffering. If we are faithful and repentant, we will co-operate with God and experience His grace as joy for eternity.

This is a really definitive video with Fr John Whiteford which should help you understand:

Life After Death: Tollhouses, Hades, and More with Father John Whiteford - YouTube

 

[Hermit76]

In short, all men are saved, as in all are resurrected. However, our inclination towards God determines how we respond to His grace in the afterlife. If we are faithless and reject grace, then exposure to God will be felt as pain and suffering. If we are faithful and repentant, we will co-operate with God and experience His grace as joy for eternity.

This is a really definitive video with Fr John Whiteford which should help you understand:

Life After Death: Tollhouses, Hades, and More with Father John Whiteford - YouTube

I'm 35mins in on this video and so far it's excellent

 

[ArmyMatt]

However, our inclination towards God determines how we respond to His grace in the afterlife. If we are faithless and reject grace, then exposure to God will be felt as pain and suffering. If we are faithful and repentant, we will co-operate with God and experience His grace as joy for eternity.

just read this in Clement of Alexandria.

 

[abacabb3]

Can you quote that, Father? I'd be interested. Most of my reading in this has been in St Gregory of Nyssa to be honest.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Can you quote that, Father? I'd be interested. Most of my reading in this has been in St Gregory of Nyssa to be honest.

I will when I open my books again. it's at the very end of his work on how a rich man can get saved.