EO and RCC.

[prodromos]

Then we go back to arguing if one bows or does a full prostration during Lenten Vespers

That pretty much comes down to whether you have pews or not

 

[GreekOrthodox]

That pretty much comes down to whether you have pews or not

It's not the pews... it's the heretical organ!

 

[prodromos]

It's not the pews... it's the heretical organ!

No disagreement there. It absolutely has no place inside an Orthodox Church.

 

[Swag365]

Catholics will say the differences are few and small. Orthodox will say the differences are many and huge.

I would actually say that there are some big differences. The practice with respect to divorce comes immediately to mind. Also the view with respect to the pope is huge, I think when it comes down to the way that the churches function.

 

[Swag365]

That is what happens when Rome decided to go its own way and break Church Council Canons that she herself agreed to and signed...she was Catholic and Orthodox when it was part of the whole...sorry to break the news to you...

LOL you guys really love to say that huh? That's cool by me. We've been accused of a whole lot worse than that!

 

[zippy2006]

Being Orthodox is like being from NJ. It's a Jersey thing, you wouldn't understand

Haha

IMHO, the approach to theology is that the Latin West (and I'm putting Protestants in here as well) is that everything needs to be explained in detailed format, aka a catechism. Heck, we don't even really have a unified translation of the liturgy, let alone a catechism. That's why when people ask what we believe, most of the time we tell them, "Come and see". We're truly not all that loosey goosey on everything. We don't mind saying "we don't know" and leaving it at that.

Fair enough, that makes sense. I peruse your forum from time to time and it is true that I don't see much debate or deviation between the different members. I wonder, though, what it would take to rein in someone like Hart on Universalism? Is there a process for that?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

LOL you guys really love to say that huh? That's cool by me. We've been accused of a whole lot worse than that!

We say it because it is true. Yes, your church HAS done MUCH worse than that!

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Haha



Fair enough, that makes sense. I peruse your forum from time to time and it is true that I don't see much debate or deviation between the different members. I wonder, though, what it would take to rein in someone like Hart on Universalism? Is there a process for that?

When it comes to major doctrines, we speak with one voice. If a bishop strays, his fellow bishops have the option to break communion with him. So currently the Russians have excommunicated the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Church of Greece over the EP recognizing a second Orthodox church in Ukraine. So for now, if I visited a Russian church, I would not be permitted to take communion. How does this affect the laity? Well my youngest son's godmother is Russian and we still happily chat on FB with each other. Theologically, we're still in agreement with each other even though we would not be able to take the sacraments together. Ill be wishing her and her family a blessed Christmas today

I don't believe in organized religion, that's why I'm Orthodox

 

[Swag365]

We say it because it is true.

That's cool by me if you believe that. When you are ready for the truth, God will lead you to it.

Yes, your church HAS done MUCH worse than that!

Absolutely.

 

[mark46]

When it comes to major doctrines, we speak with one voice. If a bishop strays, his fellow bishops have the option to break communion with him. So currently the Russians have excommunicated the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Church of Greece over the EP recognizing a second Orthodox church in Ukraine. So for now, if I visited a Russian church, I would not be permitted to take communion. How does this affect the laity? Well my youngest son's godmother is Russian and we still happily chat on FB with each other. Theologically, we're still in agreement with each other even though we would not be able to take the sacraments together. Ill be wishing her and her family a blessed Christmas today

I don't believe in organized religion, that's why I'm Orthodox

IMO, the Patriarch of Russia is the person who stands in the way of almost any meaningful discussions among Orthodox patriarchs and any of:, Oriental patriarchs, the RCC patriarch, the leader of the Anglican Communion (the Archbishop Of Canterbury), and the leaders Worldwide Lutheran Federation.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

I would actually say that there are some big differences. The practice with respect to divorce comes immediately to mind. Also the view with respect to the pope is huge, I think when it comes down to the way that the churches function.

The Orthodox Church traditionally states that "it blesses the first marriage, performs the second, tolerates the third, and forbids the fourth". Couples who has a divorcee have to get a blessing for a second marriage, and for a third, well... it's short and the clergy are not permitted to attend the reception. If originally married in the Orthodox church, they need to have a ecclesiastical divorce granted before a second or third wedding.

Here is a comparison of part of the prayers the priest says for a first vs second marriage:

Priestly prayer for a first marriage:
Exalt them as the cedars of Lebanon, and as well‑cultured vine; bestow on them a rich store of sustenance, so that having a sufficiency of all things for themselves, they may abound in every good work that is good and acceptable before You. Let them behold their children's children as newly planted olive trees round about their table; and, being accepted before You, let them shine as stars in the Heavens, in You, our Lord, to Whom are due all Glory, honor, and worship as to Your eternal Father, and Your All‑Holy, Good, and Life‑creating Spirit, both now and ever, and to the ages of ages.

Priestly prayer for a second marriage:
O thou who didst forgive Rahab the harlot, and didst accept the repentance of the Publican, remember not our sins of ignorance from our youth up. For if thou shouldest mark iniquity, O Lord, Lord who should stand before thee? Or what flesh should be justified before thee? For thou only art righteous, sinless, holy, plenteous in mercy, of great compassion, and who turnest away from the evils of men. Do thou thyself, O Master, who hast taken unto thyself thy servants N. and N., unite them to one another in love; grant unto them the conversion of the Publican, the tears of the Harlot, and the confession of the Thief, that, through repentance with all their heart, doing thy commandment in peace and oneness of mind, they may be counted worthy of thy heavenly kingdom.

Very very different

 

[ewq1938]

 

[prodromos]

The Orthodox Church traditionally states that "it blesses the first marriage, performs the second, tolerates the third, and forbids the fourth". Couples who has a divorcee have to get a blessing for a second marriage, and for a third, well... it's short and the clergy are not permitted to attend the reception. If originally married in the Orthodox church, they need to have a ecclesiastical divorce granted before a second or third wedding.

Here is a comparison of part of the prayers the priest says for a first vs second marriage:

Priestly prayer for a first marriage:
Exalt them as the cedars of Lebanon, and as well‑cultured vine; bestow on them a rich store of sustenance, so that having a sufficiency of all things for themselves, they may abound in every good work that is good and acceptable before You. Let them behold their children's children as newly planted olive trees round about their table; and, being accepted before You, let them shine as stars in the Heavens, in You, our Lord, to Whom are due all Glory, honor, and worship as to Your eternal Father, and Your All‑Holy, Good, and Life‑creating Spirit, both now and ever, and to the ages of ages.

Priestly prayer for a second marriage:
O thou who didst forgive Rahab the harlot, and didst accept the repentance of the Publican, remember not our sins of ignorance from our youth up. For if thou shouldest mark iniquity, O Lord, Lord who should stand before thee? Or what flesh should be justified before thee? For thou only art righteous, sinless, holy, plenteous in mercy, of great compassion, and who turnest away from the evils of men. Do thou thyself, O Master, who hast taken unto thyself thy servants N. and N., unite them to one another in love; grant unto them the conversion of the Publican, the tears of the Harlot, and the confession of the Thief, that, through repentance with all their heart, doing thy commandment in peace and oneness of mind, they may be counted worthy of thy heavenly kingdom.

Very very different

It should also be pointed out that a maximum of three marriages does not equate to remarriage after divorce. The canons are also in regard to remarriage after becoming widowed. It should also be noted that third marriages are rarely granted.

 

[prodromos]

I would actually say that there are some big differences. The practice with respect to divorce comes immediately to mind.

Divorce & Remarriage in the Latin West: A Forgotten History
Divorce & Remarriage in the Latin West: An Addendum

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

That's cool by me if you believe that. When you are ready for the truth, God will lead you to it.

Absolutely.

Orthodoxy=right belief...truth...already there...maybe someday you will come home...

 

[mark46]

Orthodoxy=right belief...truth...already there...maybe someday you will come home...

perhaps that would be unnecessary if the Patriarch of Russia recognized the Patriarch of Rome as a first among equal patriarchs, and the Patriarch of Rome accepted that role, with all the powers and responsibilities that were in place at the time of the last ecumenical council before 800.

 

[prodromos]

perhaps that would be unnecessary of the Patriarch of Russia recognized the Patriarch of Rome as a first among equal patriarchs, and the Patriarch of Rome accepted that role, with all the powers and responsibilities that were in place at the time of the last ecumenical council before 800.

Rome is too deeply invested in her errors to return to what she once was. I can only see individuals or entire parishes converting to Orthodoxy, such as happened with St Alexis Toth. I don't see Rome ever repenting of her errors.

 

[The Liturgist]

When these 23 Eastern Catholic Churches are brought up, don't you think it should be mentioned that that together they make up less than half of one percent of the Catholic Church, the other 99.5% being the Roman rite.

That said, the Maronite Catholic Church is one of the largest Christian churches in the Middle East, and also, if memory serves, the largest of the historic Syriac churches.

 

[The Liturgist]

Rome is too deeply invested in her errors to return to what she once was. I can only see individuals or entire parishes converting to Orthodoxy, such as happened with St Alexis Toth. I don't see Rome ever repenting of her errors.

On the contrary, I think ever since the reforms of Pius V, the Roman church has been slowly but surely recovering from the severe problems of the 9th-16th century that lead to the Great Schism, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the ridiculous decadence of the Avignon Papacy and later the Borgias, and finally the Protestant reformation. There have not been any disasters on the scale of what happened back then; the worst problems in recent years have been with the destructive changes to the liturgy under Cardinal Bugnini and Pope Paul VI, and more importantly, the devastatingly sad problems with sex abuse. However, there has been nothing on a par with what happened in between the Photian Synod and the Synod of Dositheus.

Separately the Roman church does have the world’s largest and arguably best charitable operations. For this reason alone, I think an Orthodox-Catholic-liturgical Protestant restoration of communion would be highly desirable, because of the ability to unify all of the charitable operations.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Separately the Roman church does have the world’s largest and arguably best charitable operations. For this reason alone, I think an Orthodox-Catholic-liturgical Protestant restoration of communion would be highly desirable, because of the ability to unify all of the charitable operations.

We do work cooperatively at least on the local level for various charities. My church supports a homeless program that is partnered up not only with other local churches but local businesses as well. There is an annual exchange between Rome and the Ecumenical Patriarch to support better relations.