Enticed through witchcraft

[LinkH]

My wife has a relative in Indonesia. Years ago, I'd heard that he'd had an affair with a woman. It was said that he'd been 'digunain'. Basically, they were saying he'd been a victim of witchcraft. I don't know what the method was supposed to have been, a magic rock that the witchdoctor puts on ones tooth and it sinks in, potions, or what. But they said he'd been digunain. He ended up actually leaving his wife and going to live with this other woman, who, they said, being from a certain people-group, knew how to do witchcraft on him like a lot of those women did.

I finally met her in Indonesia before a wedding. It was a church wedding instead of a traditional party, with a white dress and everything. I tried to talk my mother-in-law, who just passed away yesterday, to go inside where I was waiting with my wife and kids. It finally occured to me that they family may want to walk in behind the bride like they do in the cultural ceremony.

Anyway, the woman who supposedly did the witchcraft on the wedding came in and managed to scoot herself over in the spot I'd saved, where my bag was. It was irritating, but I realized it was normal behavior there. Saving seats is a much looser concept. They just sit in front of your bag if necessary. Mine was under a pew.

Anyway, I just thought it was interesting that they blame stuff like this on witchcraft. I wonder if they do it to partially excuse the guilty somehow.

 

[DZoolander]

I think it's done totally to excuse the behavior.

Out of curiosity, though, I thought you believed in the power of witchcraft? It's easy for me to dismiss that kind of stuff because I think it's nonsense. But don't you believe differently?

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Reading this it seems quite cultural - part of the norm as an acceptable reason that the adultery took place. To a Western mind, it may not seem so. And, who knows what spiritual forces could have been at work to bring it about? Perhaps it's a carry-over from my Pentecostal days, but I'm very wary of anything outside of my 'spiritual' comfort zone. Let's just say that influences are everywhere - the whole "we do not war against flesh and blood" thing. I firmly believe that, if tapped into long enough, there will be a response.

 

[LinkH]

I think it's done totally to excuse the behavior.

Out of curiosity, though, I thought you believed in the power of witchcraft? It's easy for me to dismiss that kind of stuff because I think it's nonsense. But don't you believe differently?

Power of witchcraft? I believe there are demonic forces that can do certain things. To some of the specifics of how witchcraft works, I don't know.

I know an American who spent many years in Indonesia. He was suffering from a kidney stone, and passed it. Then, he found, over his door, a bag of urine. (I'm imagining some kind of square ventilation hole or something over the door like they might have in Indonesia. I didn't see it. Presumably, the maid put it there. This was apparently a form of witchcraft. he wondered why the maid would do that. He was tipping her at times, and he was friendly, so maybe she thought he was wanting more than maid service or something like that. He was a kind of friendly guy that might be mistaken for a flirt.

My wife found a bag of black sand at the house we stayed in (provided by a school) in Indonesia. I thought 'so what?' She was concerned that a neighbor, maybe a maid, was jealous and that black sand was apparently a means of witchcraft. I guess the locals know the stuff that is done for witchcraft around here. Anyway, she was freaking out about the sand, praying against it. My attitude was so, what' it's a bag of black sand. A curse not deserved will fly away. Just pray and don't worry about it. She said she was upset because someone would want to do witchcraft against us. I think she thought the maid wanted to get rid of her so she could have me. That's when I was a little younger, thinner, and maybe a bit better looking. Some Indonesian women want to marry white foreigner
People in Indonesia talk about various kinds of jimat, like rocks the dukun (witchdoctor) puts in someone's tooth that may attract men or women or make an individual invulnerable. They say it just goes into the tooth. I heard a story about a man who fell into the black goo in one of the many ditches here along the side of the road. The goo was full of chemical poison. He lay there suffering in the hospital, and couldn't die, the story goes. Then they called the witchdoctor who came and took the magic rock out of his tooth or skin so he could stop suffering and die.

We used to have a video of a church performing an exorcism on a man as the various nails and other amulets he'd had dukun put in his body fall out on the floor over the course of several minutes.

Plenty of educated people in Indonesia believe in ghosts. Over lunch with people with masters and PhDs, one of the PhDs would talk about experiences with ghosts.

One of my expat friends in Indonesia, raised Pentecostal in the US, had a lot of stories about a creepy house that seemed kind of 'haunted' his family rented for a while and moved out of to live in a tiny trailer. The preachers wife wouldn't go in the house. They'd see a light on when they went over a hill and it would be off when they got home. Doors would lock by themselves. Once, he was sleeping, about 9 years old or so having a weird dream, and his mom came in the room. The wind was blowing the curtains but the window was closed. He said he woke up one night to a dark creature at the foot of his bed, like a big silhouette. He was scared of it.

Later, when he was in college, actively trying to evangelize people and getting them involved in a college group, he heard some kind of Satanic witches on campus were trying to curse him and his friends and he saw the same kind of creature by his bed, presumably summoned by the witches, when he woke up, but he wasn't afraid. But he could sense that it was afraid of him.

I tend to think of it this way, that people may 'barter' with demons to do something, or request their aid by doing witchcraft. Demons might have the power to carry it out, but they have limitations, especially when it comes to trying to do things to Christians.

 

[LinkH]

Btw, I think they are sincere when they blame these things on witchcraft. I've known some Filippinos who blamed a teenage affair on witchcraft, too, and the family may have actually practiced some form of it.

I get the impression that the uncle went for a woman they didn't consider desirable, maybe a bit older than the previous wife, no better looking, not that much thinner, Muslim, and not from their people-group, and that may be a reason they though 'it must be because of witchcraft. She's from X people-group, and they do withcraft.' And some of the people do go to witchdoctors and do some kind of witchcraft around here to try to find love, money, strength, etc.

 

[Job8]

Anyway, I just thought it was interesting that they blame stuff like this on witchcraft. I wonder if they do it to partially excuse the guilty somehow.

Since witchcraft is quite prevalent throughout the third world (not to say it is absent from North America) you would be wise to consider that possibility seriously, not knowing the actual circumstances. As to excusing the guilty, buck-passing is a common phenomenon anywhere in the world. As to misappropriating your saved seat, why did you not bring up with the woman right there?

 

[LinkH]

Since witchcraft is quite prevalent throughout the third world (not to say it is absent from North America) you would be wise to consider that possibility seriously, not knowing the actual circumstances. As to excusing the guilty, buck-passing is a common phenomenon anywhere in the world. As to misappropriating your saved seat, why did you not bring up with the woman right there?

They don't have the same concept of saving seats. I left ot take photos of my daughter, a flower girl. It wasn't worth it anyway, and Ididn't want to disrupt the wedding.

I found it interesting that the Methodis preacher called marriage a sacrament during the sermon (full blown sermons at Indonesian weddings). I thought Protestants had two, baptism and the Lord's Supper.

 

[Dave-W]

I found it interesting that the Methodist preacher called marriage a sacrament during the sermon (full blown sermons at Indonesian weddings). I thought Protestants had two, baptism and the Lord's Supper

Those 2 are the standard ones recognized by the UMC. But there is a lot of "wiggle room" in UMC doctrine, and certain pastors and maybe even districts may recognize other rites as sacraments as well.