Enoch and Elijah

pdudgeon · Oct 24, 2015

MikeK said:
Which particular bit of scripture am I contradicting? I haven't scoffed at Jesus or anything He said, and to suggest such is rather dishonest of you. I'll stop short of telling you that you need to realize that for your own sake.

replying with a detailed list would be off topic, so no, i'll not bite, thanks.

pdudgeon · Oct 24, 2015

MikeK said:
Great point, let's consider what has come before.

WW2 in the mid 20th century killed 60 million people.

The Three Kingdoms War killed 40 million in the 1st century.

The Mongol Conquests in the 13th century killed about 35 million.

These are the worst human disasters in recorded history.

there will be wars and rumors of wars, but the end is not yet.

seekingsolace · Oct 24, 2015

MikeK said:
Which particular bit of scripture am I contradicting? I haven't scoffed at Jesus or anything He said, and to suggest such is rather dishonest of you. I'll stop short of telling you that you need to realize that for your own sake.

Do you acknowledge deliberately scoffing at LWU?

I am not surprised he has kept to himself, when you have been derisive from that start.

Michie · Oct 24, 2015

Well it is a beautiful fall day and the campfire is calling. I'll check in later!

MikeK · Oct 24, 2015

seekingsolace said:
Do you acknowledge deliberately scoffing at LWU?

I am not surprised he has kept to himself, when you have been derisive from that start.

Not the individual, but the idea, yes. I scoff at the idea that a Christian would be so nearly certain that they have information that could help so many but refuse to share it.

MikeK · Oct 24, 2015

pdudgeon said:
replying with a detailed list would be off topic, so no, i'll not bite, thanks.

Making the claim that I scoffed at Christ and His words is apparently okay but actually stating what I scoffed at is not. What a strange code to live by.

I'll continue to answer direct questions directly because I am a man who values truth and honesty in discussion. Yes, there is some vulnerability that comes with such a position, but I do my best to embrace it.

LivingWordUnity · Oct 24, 2015

seekingsolace said:
Do you acknowledge deliberately scoffing at LWU?

I am not surprised he has kept to himself, when you have been derisive from that start.

He didn't just scoff at me, he scoffed at the prophecy about Elijah itself by calling it "vague" and unknowable. And he scoffs at anything I post that requires a belief in the supernatural.

seekingsolace · Oct 24, 2015

MikeK said:
Not the individual, but the idea, yes. I scoff at the idea that a Christian would be so nearly certain that they have information that could help so many but refuse to share it.

You have in fairness (from my experience) ridiculed even the concept that LWU could be correct.

I don't know what he believes, but I have enough respect to acknowledge he would have done the legwork to reach that conclusion.

Whether it be true or not, I've not experienced any casual opinions, or false assertions.

pdudgeon · Oct 24, 2015

so let's look around at what has been happening during the last two months:
Sept.
1. sept. 22-26 wall street and stock markets shake. worst day Sept 25.
2. redefinition of marriage by Supreme court
3. Ebola in Texas
4. Pope's tour of the Americas and Cuba. highest security ever observed
5. Thousands of refugees flee Middle East persecution

Oct.
1. Vatican symposium on the Family for 3 weeks
2. catastrophic wide-spread flooding in North and South Carolina
3. Campus shootings in Oregon and AZ targets Christians
4. Category 5 hurricane Patricia strikes Mexico
5. wide-spread flooding in East and Central Texas, 12+ inches of rain.

all of the above incidents have been recorded and reported by the news media.
all the above incidents involve a shaking of what was previously viewed as normal behaviour.
or normal procedures.

please note how the number of unusual incidents that have happened, and their frequency,
duration, and intensity have increased over what has been experienced in the last 5 years.

LivingWordUnity · Oct 24, 2015

pdudgeon said:
so let's look around at what has been happening during the last two months:
Sept.
1. sept. 22-26 wall street and stock markets shake. worst day Sept 25.
2. redefinition of marriage by Supreme court
3. Ebola in Texas
4. Pope's tour of the Americas and Cuba. highest security ever observed
5. Thousands of refugees flee Middle East persecution

Oct.
1. Vatican symposium on the Family for 3 weeks
2. catastrophic wide-spread flooding in North and South Carolina
3. Campus shootings in Oregon and AZ targets Christians
4. Category 5 hurricane Patricia strikes Mexico
5. wide-spread flooding in East and Central Texas, 12+ inches of rain.

all of the above incidents have been recorded and reported by the news media.
all the above incidents involve a shaking of what was previously viewed as normal behaviour.
or normal procedures.

please note how the number of unusual incidents that have happened, and their frequency,
duration, and intensity have increased over what has been experienced in the last 5 years.

Your wasting your energy. He's just going to say "Bad things have happened before, and people have been wrong before."

pdudgeon · Oct 24, 2015

Michie said:
Well it is a beautiful fall day and the campfire is calling. I'll check in later!

it is indeed.
hope you've got s'mores on the menue...

pdudgeon · Oct 24, 2015

LivingWordUnity said:
Your wasting your energy. He's just going to say "Bad things have happened before, and people have been wrong before."

not at all. he can't argue with facts.
opinions, maybe, but facts just don't go away.

LivingWordUnity · Oct 24, 2015

The Purpose of the Parables (Matt 13)

10 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11 And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For to him who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says:

‘You shall indeed hear but never understand,
and you shall indeed see but never perceive.
15 For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and their ears are heavy of hearing,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should perceive with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their heart,
and turn for me to heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.17 Truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

seekingsolace · Oct 24, 2015

MikeK said:
Making the claim that I scoffed at Christ and His words is apparently okay but actually stating what I scoffed at is not. What a strange code to live by.

I'll continue to answer direct questions directly because I am a man who values truth and honesty in discussion. Yes, there is some vulnerability that comes with such a position, but I do my best to embrace it.

You have whether directly or indirectly scoffed at His words. Inferring that those who work at end-times studies are neglecting other Christian duties. It is fair to say none of us can say how the other serves God in their daily lives. While similarly the saints and doctors of the Church, along with Popes served Christ effectively while also dedicating time to this particular topic. We are exhorted, and blessed to dutifully study in preparation, and acknowledgment of the signs.

Constructively LWU has offered more in this thread narrative, than your constant disapproval and unedifying retorts. I do think you have been unfair to him.

MikeK · Oct 24, 2015

pdudgeon said:
so let's look around at what has been happening during the last two months:
Sept.
1. sept. 22-26 wall street and stock markets shake. worst day Sept 25.
2. redefinition of marriage by Supreme court
3. Ebola in Texas
4. Pope's tour of the Americas and Cuba. highest security ever observed
5. Thousands of refugees flee Middle East persecution

Oct.
1. Vatican symposium on the Family for 3 weeks
2. catastrophic wide-spread flooding in North and South Carolina
3. Campus shootings in Oregon and AZ targets Christians
4. Category 5 hurricane Patricia strikes Mexico
5. wide-spread flooding in East and Central Texas, 12+ inches of rain.

all of the above incidents have been recorded and reported by the news media.
all the above incidents involve a shaking of what was previously viewed as normal behaviour.
or normal procedures.

please note how the number of unusual incidents that have happened, and their frequency,
duration, and intensity have increased over what has been experienced in the last 5 years.

How did you determine that the number of unusual incidents and their frequency has increased over the last 5 years? I don't believe that's the case and I suspect that at any given time, people looking for unusual events could find them. That doesn't mean that this isn't the end times, but you haven't made a very good case that it is.

MikeK · Oct 24, 2015

seekingsolace said:
You have whether directly or indirectly scoffed at His words. Inferring that those who work at end-times studies are neglecting other Christian duties. It is fair to say none of us can say how the other serves God in their daily lives. While similarly the saints and doctors of the Church, along with Popes served Christ effectively while also dedicating time to this particular topic. We are exhorted, and blessed to dutifully study in preparation, and acknowledgment of the signs.

Constructively LWU has offered more in this thread narrative, than your constant disapproval and unedifying retorts. I do think you have been unfair to him.

You may think what you please. I will continue to respect truth and honesty and vulnerability, without them fruitful discussion is impossible.

I have stated very clearly in this thread that there is nothing wrong with an interest in end times studies. There is something wrong with failing to serve neighbor (and refusing to tell your neighbor the identity of the person who you're 99.9% certain is the Antichrist qualifies, I'd say). It might be that LWU uses his unique gifts to do the good - good like Michie did when she brought the Eucharist to the elderly, or like Charlie does with his constant blood donations, or like I'm sure most of us do in our parish communities. I don't believe it is wrong to speak of the service we do, I think it is inspiring to read tales of the great things God's people do to help His children.

LivingWordUnity · Oct 24, 2015

MikeK said:
There is something wrong with...refusing to tell your neighbor the identity of the person who you're 99.9% certain is the Antichrist qualifies

When did the Catholic Church ever say that? And are you saying you think that Pope St. Pius X was wrong for saying that the conditions were ripe for the possibility that the Antichrist could be in the world without naming who he thought it might be?

pdudgeon · Oct 24, 2015

MikeK said:
How did you determine that the number of unusual incidents and their frequency has increased over the last 5 years? I don't believe that's the case and I suspect that at any given time, people looking for unusual events could find them. That doesn't mean that this isn't the end times, but you haven't made a very good case that it is.

and you are free to not believe what i have posted.
nontheless these are reported and verified facts.
the people reporting them are not related to each other,
(or to me)
and they are verified by national, respected sources.

people looking for such individual and unusual events could indeed find them.
but they would not all be within such a short time frame, duration, or intensity.

there at any given time many women who are in various stages of pregnancy,
but the progress of a woman in labor cannot be denied.

LivingWordUnity · Oct 24, 2015

"When all this is considered there is good reason to fear lest this great perversity may be as it were a foretaste, and perhaps the beginning of those evils which are reserved for the last days; and that there may be already in the world the 'Son of Perdition' of whom the Apostle speaks (II. Thess. ii., 3). Such, in truth, is the audacity and the wrath employed everywhere in persecuting religion, in combating the dogmas of the faith, in brazen effort to uproot and destroy all relations between man and the Divinity! While, on the other hand, and this according to the same apostle is the distinguishing mark of Antichrist, man has with infinite temerity put himself in the place of God, raising himself above all that is called God; in such wise that although he cannot utterly extinguish in himself all knowledge of God, he has contemned God's majesty and, as it were, made of the universe a temple wherein he himself is to be adored. 'He sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself as if he were God' (II. Thess. ii., 2)."

- Pope St. Pius X, E Supremi (October 4, 1903)
.

seekingsolace · Oct 24, 2015

MikeK said:
You may think what you please. I will continue to respect truth and honesty and vulnerability, without them fruitful discussion is impossible.

What are you trying to convince us of?

I'll re-post your first response to this thread. A fairly good indicator of your opinion on the OP.

Ooh, I loves me a carefully-selected, vague prophesy.

And your stand below, though you persisted in what you (seem) to deem unfruitful pursuits.

I shared my observation that end times prophesies are a hotter topic of discussion here than following Christ's primary commands to us is.

I have stated very clearly in this thread that there is nothing wrong with an interest in end times studies. There is something wrong with failing to serve neighbor (and refusing to tell your neighbor the identity of the person who you're 99.9% certain is the Antichrist qualifies, I'd say). It might be that LWU uses his unique gifts to do the good - good like Michie did when she brought the Eucharist to the elderly, or like Charlie does with his constant blood donations, or like I'm sure most of us do in our parish communities. I don't believe it is wrong to speak of the service we do, I think it is inspiring to read tales of the great things God's people do to help His children.

Is it fair to say productively LWU has offered more here than your continued ridicule? And if yes, wouldn't your stated position be a little hypocritical since your persistent participation is in-fact neglecting what you accuse others of.

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