Endurance Of The Ten Commandments (incl. Sabbath)

[Byfaithalone1]

Today in the era of the New Covenant the expression of faith is to rest in Jesus' work on the cross...the literal resting on the seventh day of a week (whenever it starts or ends) is not relevant to expressing faith any longer. A much more difficult standard is set forth. To believe and behave in a fashion that none of our righteous acts can gain us access into heaven or acquire peace between men and God. Only Jesus can do this.

Well said.

BFA

 

[Stravinsk]

To whom were the ten commandments given?

Israel. True believers, however, are "grafted in to the olive tree", which is Israel. What we call "Israel" today,
that is, unbelieving Jews, is not true Israel.
In any case, if you mean to, by implication, say: "the law is for them, not for us", then would you feel free to worship
idols, misuse God's name, worship other gods, murder, covet, dishonour parents and the like? If the answer is "no", then
you speak out of both sides of your mouth on the issue since the Sabbath is written by God's finger on Stone just as the other 9 commandments were.

What are the letters engraved in stones that were called "the ministry of death?"

Romans 7:10-13 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 ¶ Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

If you read this carefully you will find that the commandment itself does not bring death, it is *SIN* that brings death through the commandment. The carnal mind cannot submit to God's law.

Why did Paul write that the law was added 430 years after Abraham and only until the Seed had come?

And which law are you speaking of? Remember that Galations begins and ends with circumsicion. Read this verse:

Galatians 3:19 19 ¶ What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

And what follows, and ask yourself this: If *a law* is added because *of transgressions*, what law might this be? A *transgression* is in violation of an *already existing law*. Therefore it is a different law. It is the
law that has to do with divers washings, sacrifice of animals, temple ceramonies, sprinkling of blood - all of which is
done away with in Christ (this is how it is a "tutor"(Galations 3:24)) and further explained in Hebrews chapters 8 and 9.

If we are to die to the law so that we may be joined with another, are we to commit adultery with the law after we die to it?

Keeping the 10 commandments is not "adultery". You might as well argue that Christ encourages you to break the law in
His name. What blasphemy. Scripture warns against this:

Romans 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Are we saved by grace through faith alone, or will there come a day when we are saved by grace plus sabbath keeping?

There is no need for grace if you do not recognise sin. Grace, forgiveness becomes meaningless if there is nothing to forgive. So, no, you are not saved by this kind of "grace". God does not grant "grace" so that we can use it as an excuse to be lawless. That is not grace at all - but a total and complete contradiction to what grace is. Forgiveness comes with repentance, and looking with faith to the Redeemer, not rebellion.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Jon DB



Br Kendall

Stop viewing the law as some form of bondage:

1Jn 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. "


BFA


When Visionary speaks of the end time revelation on this matter I'd personaly elevate this argument in light of the end time the saints will face.


Rev 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."


Rev 12:17 "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

As the pages of history are closeing those who disobey God's commandments will soon be exposed and fall victims of the Beast, The harlot and share Babylon's plagues.

Will every angel in Heaven, every religious Christian (leader or follower) on Earth and every soul choose what it is of God in their hearts to follow? Have we but one faith, even one Lord, yet disallow the Holy Spirit to guide us to take up instead angels, our mind, logic and even passions to follow? I know that there is but one right way to follow. This has to be the son of God through the Holy Spirit. Yet, each Christian and angel in Heaven fortifies their own fortresses of thoughts, patterning and integrating as though numbers somehow impressed God. The only thing that impresses God is obedience to the son of man, Jesus Christ, our Lord.

I don't blame Christians of being as they are. They are the product of disobedient ones of long ago, but they can know to obey the son of man and the son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, and focus on him alone. There is no debate on Jesus Christ. He is the son of man and the son of God. He is our Lord and savior. We must obey the commands of God, which are his son's very words given to us while here on Earth 2,000 years ago. Why? Because we are born of God and are his children. Our place is to follow Jesus Christ through our personal relationship with God by the Holy Spirit. We love each other and have no reason to debate anything. There will be a day soon that Christians will be this way all over the Earth, for it is prophesied. They will be as one again and the world, all together, will hate them, to destroy them.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Israel. True believers, however, are "grafted in to the olive tree", which is Israel.

Note that Romans 11 does not identify the olive tree as Israel. In fact, it identifies the root as being holy. Israel is not holy.

If the answer is "no", then you speak out of both sides of your mouth on the issue since the Sabbath is written by God's finger on Stone just as the other 9 commandments were.

All ten are the letters engraved on stones that are the ministry that brings death and that were fading even during the life of Paul.

If you read this carefully you will find that the commandment itself does not bring death, it is *SIN* that brings death through the commandment. The carnal mind cannot submit to God's law.

And yet--in the very same passage--we are told to die to law, not just sin.

And which law are you speaking of? Remember that Galations begins and ends with circumsicion.

Circumcision was included in which law? Which law is described in Romans 7:7? Which law is described in Galatians 5:19?

And what follows, and ask yourself this: If *a law* is added because *of transgressions*, what law might this be?

The law that was added 430 years after Abraham. For more information, read Deuteronomy 5 to see what was added 430 years after Abraham.

A *transgression* is in violation of an *already existing law*.

It does not say that. It says transgression. According to John 16, the Spirit reveals sin. Seems to me that sin existed before the law was added.

Therefore it is a different law.

Pursuant to the passages cited above, it is the same law.

It is the law that has to do with divers washings, sacrifice of animals, temple ceramonies, sprinkling of blood - all of which is
done away with in Christ (this is how it is a "tutor"(Galations 3:24)) and further explained in Hebrews chapters 8 and 9.

Leviticus 23 lists them. Consider carefully verses 1-4.

Keeping the 10 commandments is not "adultery". You might as well argue that Christ encourages you to break the law in His name. What blasphemy.

Consider Romans 7 carefully. The comparison is between the law and marriage. If your spouse dies, you are free to marry another. Therefore, we must die to the law so that we may be joined to another. Romans 7:7 defines exactly what law we are discussing. If we die to the law so that we may be joined with Jesus Christ, then why would we commit adultery with the same law to which we died. Paul warns against this.

Romans 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Romans 3:31 does not indicate that we establish the law by keeping it. Rather, it confirms that we establish the law by faith. If you read Romans 3 carefully, you will notice that there is none righteous and all sin. We do not establish the law by keeping it. We establish the law by faith.

There is no need for grace if you do not recognise sin.

Whether I recognize sin or not, I still need grace. However, the Spirit convicts me of sin and righteousness and judgment, so you can be very sure that I recognize sin.

Grace, forgiveness becomes meaningless if there is nothing to forgive.

There is much to forgive. The Spirit reveals the truth of this statement.

So, no, you are not saved by this kind of "grace". God does not grant "grace" so that we can use it as an excuse to be lawless.

Who needs an excuse? According to Galatians 3, the whole world is a slave to sin.

BFA

 

[dragNdrop]

BFA

Sorry, I was just saying that scripture shows that the identifying marks of a true remnant (Rev 12:17;14:12). Which acording to my understanding is what Visionary was trying to imply.

That is, one day our loyalty to the la of God will be tested. Will you be ready ? Are you weakening or maintaining the strength of the word ?


Kendall

I am not sure what you are trying to say. I was just telling you that scripture tells us that you should not view God's commandments as you do.

 

[StormyOne]

BFA

Sorry, I was just saying that scripture shows that the identifying marks of a true remnant (Rev 12:17;14:12). Which acording to my understanding is what Visionary was trying to imply.

That is, one day our loyalty to the la of God will be tested. Will you be ready ? Are you weakening or maintaining the strength of the word ?


Kendall

I am not sure what you are trying to say. I was just telling you that scripture tells us that you should not view God's commandments as you do.

Because you have interpreted it as such, and have made the tenuous claim that "one day our loyalty will be tested" does not make it true... Your interpretation minimizes the horrific suffering now occurring across the globe via genocide, religious cleansing, and or suffering..... such interpretations I find to be obscene.....

 

[visionary]

Israel. True believers, however, are "grafted in to the olive tree", which is Israel. What we call "Israel" today,
that is, unbelieving Jews, is not true Israel.
In any case, if you mean to, by implication, say: "the law is for them, not for us", then would you feel free to worship
idols, misuse God's name, worship other gods, murder, covet, dishonour parents and the like? If the answer is "no", then
you speak out of both sides of your mouth on the issue since the Sabbath is written by God's finger on Stone just as the other 9 commandments were.



Romans 7:10-13 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 ¶ Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

If you read this carefully you will find that the commandment itself does not bring death, it is *SIN* that brings death through the commandment. The carnal mind cannot submit to God's law.


And which law are you speaking of? Remember that Galations begins and ends with circumsicion. Read this verse:

Galatians 3:19 19 ¶ What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

And what follows, and ask yourself this: If *a law* is added because *of transgressions*, what law might this be? A *transgression* is in violation of an *already existing law*. Therefore it is a different law. It is the
law that has to do with divers washings, sacrifice of animals, temple ceramonies, sprinkling of blood - all of which is
done away with in Christ (this is how it is a "tutor"(Galations 3:24)) and further explained in Hebrews chapters 8 and 9.



Keeping the 10 commandments is not "adultery". You might as well argue that Christ encourages you to break the law in
His name. What blasphemy. Scripture warns against this:

Romans 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.



There is no need for grace if you do not recognise sin. Grace, forgiveness becomes meaningless if there is nothing to forgive. So, no, you are not saved by this kind of "grace". God does not grant "grace" so that we can use it as an excuse to be lawless. That is not grace at all - but a total and complete contradiction to what grace is. Forgiveness comes with repentance, and looking with faith to the Redeemer, not rebellion.

Welll said!!!!

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Because you have interpreted it as such, and have made the tenuous claim that "one day our loyalty will be tested" does not make it true... Your interpretation minimizes the horrific suffering now occurring across the globe via genocide, religious cleansing, and or suffering..... such interpretations I find to be obscene.....

Me too.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

one day our loyalty to the la of God will be tested.

Tested based on what? Based on WHOM we worship, or based on WHEN we worship? What does the Bible say?

BFA

 

[Cribstyl]

Israel. True believers, however, are "grafted in to the olive tree", which is Israel. What we call "Israel" today,
that is, unbelieving Jews, is not true Israel.
In any case, if you mean to, by implication, say: "the law is for them, not for us", then would you feel free to worship
idols, misuse God's name, worship other gods, murder, covet, dishonour parents and the like? If the answer is "no", then
you speak out of both sides of your mouth on the issue since the Sabbath is written by God's finger on Stone just as the other 9 commandments were.

What part of..........Rom 11:2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew....dont you understand?
You need to read this chapter and get your facts in order Sir.Rom 11:1

Israel never stops being Israel they're of the original olive tree just as
Gentiles are said to be of wild olive tree. Does it seems as if Gentiles had the laws and ordinances or did they live "wild by nature"?
Why are there two trees and why one is called wild?


Rom 11:20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Try to remember that we know for sure the Children of Israel had the law, and they continued the sabbath, but neither keeping the law or sabbathkeeping are the reasons why they're broken off

By sabbathkeeping they showed faith in the Creator of heaven and earth. They failed and Were blinded from believing that Jesus Christ is Lord of all and He died for their sins.
They're still under the law and will be judge by the law, unless they turn to Jesus.

Do they still keep the sabbath? What commandments are they guilty of breaking?

Their unbelief in Jesus is why they'll have the law to stand against them.

Romans 7:10-13 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 ¶ Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

If you read this carefully you will find that the commandment itself does not bring death, it is *SIN* that brings death through the commandment. The carnal mind cannot submit to God's law.

And by reading more carefully, I find those 3 verses are explaining an answer to the question.."Is the law sin?"Rom 7:7

That question comes to explain that; the law is not the reason why "we're dead to the law" and are "delivered from the law."
Rom 7:4.... ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;
Rom 7:6...we are delivered from the law,

You're ignoring or are blind to the truth as presented by scriptures.

And which law are you speaking of? Remember that Galations begins and ends with circumsicion. Read this verse:

Galatians 3:19 19 ¶ What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

And what follows, and ask yourself this: If *a law* is added because *of transgressions*, what law might this be? A *transgression* is in violation of an *already existing law*. Therefore it is a different law. It is the
law that has to do with divers washings, sacrifice of animals, temple ceramonies, sprinkling of blood - all of which is
done away with in Christ (this is how it is a "tutor"(Galations 3:24)) and further explained in Hebrews chapters 8 and 9.

Dont get it all twisted. Since you're commenting on Gal 3:19,After the COI were freed from Egypt, they fail to obey God, thus they transgressed his commandments. The Law came as a result of their disobedience and complaining. Read Ex 14,-20.

Keeping the 10 commandments is not "adultery". You might as well argue that Christ encourages you to break the law in
His name. What blasphemy. Scripture warns against this:

Romans 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Dont let the questions make you forget that the subject is that; "from NOW on, the way to be made right with God is without the law." and the prophet declared it.....(Moses, Jeremiah 31:31-34)Rom 3:21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


"Through faith" mean through the doctrine of faith in Jesus Crhist as taught by His apostles though the Holy Spirit.

There is no need for grace if you do not recognise sin. Grace, forgiveness becomes meaningless if there is nothing to forgive. So, no, you are not saved by this kind of "grace". God does not grant "grace" so that we can use it as an excuse to be lawless. That is not grace at all - but a total and complete contradiction to what grace is. Forgiveness comes with repentance, and looking with faith to the Redeemer, not rebellion.

CRIB

 

[Cribstyl]

one day our loyalty to the la of God will be tested.

Peter wanted people to show loyalty by considering to building a shrine for Moses who represented the law, for Elijah who represented all the prophets, and to Jesus the Son of God. God cut him off before he finished his statement. and said "listen to my beloved Son" Mat 17:5While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

 

[JohnDB]

Speaking of Peter...

You are missing it still.

Elijah was the prophet who "beat death" and won. (according to the talmuds) and Peter would have known this off the top of his head.

Moses was busy talking about Jesus' "Exodus".

And besides...these guys had been dead for hundreds of years...and pictures or portraits weren't allowed...so how did Peter recognize them anyway? (I do know the answer but it is a great question isn't it?)

Getting back to Peter for a minute.

Peter and Paul had a quarrel about what?...and it isn't like there wasn't a reason...and Paul was right...and addmittedly by Peter.

Because of the story of "Peter's Confession of Christ"

"Therefore (Because of everything he has already built a case for) there is now NO Condemnation for those in (the) Christ, Jesus....meaning it really doesn't matter what day of the week you go to church...and claiming that somebody is sinning because of the one day of the week they go is a big big sin.

Luke talks clearly about the four types of sin
Lost sheep (sins of ignorance)
Lost coin (sins of negligence)
Prodigal son (two sins are detailed here)
(planned and thought out sin)
(sin of judging and unforgiveness...which is pride)

All of these sins were listed from least to greatest in character.

 

[visionary]

Sin of neglect would apply here.

 

[dragNdrop]

This is obviously a burrning issue. I see it dominating the threads.

IT'S MYSTEFYING TO ME HOW DO WE FULFIL THE LAW THROUGH FAITH WITHOUT (IN PRACTICE), KEEPING THE LAW.

IF YOU LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR YOU WON'T IN PRACTICE (KILL, STEAL, ADULTERY, ETC). IF YOU LOVE AND HAVE FAITH IN GOD YOU WONT (OTHER GODS, IDOLS,...) YOU WILL ( ...SABBATH).

HENCE FAITH FULFILLS NOT DESTROY THE LAW.

PERFECT LOGIC.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

IT'S MYSTEFYING TO ME HOW DO WE FULFIL THE LAW THROUGH FAITH WITHOUT (IN PRACTICE), KEEPING THE LAW.

Why does this mystify you? The passage in question is Romans 3. What does Romans 3 tell us about the righteousness and understanding of men? Do you accept that there is none righteous, none who understand? Do you accept that we establish the law through faith?

IF YOU LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR YOU WON'T IN PRACTICE (KILL, STEAL, ADULTERY, ETC).

In fact, you will do these things. There is no truth in the man who claims that he is without sin.

HENCE FAITH FULFILLS NOT DESTROY THE LAW.

Yes. It is a faith in that which HE has done.

PERFECT LOGIC.

I've yet to understand a logic that interprets Romans 3 to mean that there are some who are righteous. Romans 3 confirms that there are none who are righteous.

BFA

 

[Cribstyl]

Speaking of Peter...

You are missing it still.

Elijah was the prophet who "beat death" and won. (according to the talmuds) and Peter would have known this off the top of his head.

Moses was busy talking about Jesus' "Exodus".

And besides...these guys had been dead for hundreds of years...and pictures or portraits weren't allowed...so how did Peter recognize them anyway? (I do know the answer but it is a great question isn't it?)

Getting back to Peter for a minute.

Peter and Paul had a quarrel about what?...and it isn't like there wasn't a reason...and Paul was right...and addmittedly by Peter.

Because of the story of "Peter's Confession of Christ"

"Therefore (Because of everything he has already built a case for) there is now NO Condemnation for those in (the) Christ, Jesus....meaning it really doesn't matter what day of the week you go to church...and claiming that somebody is sinning because of the one day of the week they go is a big big sin.

Luke talks clearly about the four types of sin
Lost sheep (sins of ignorance)
Lost coin (sins of negligence)
Prodigal son (two sins are detailed here)
(planned and thought out sin)
(sin of judging and unforgiveness...which is pride)

All of these sins were listed from least to greatest in character.

Yea, my bad, I guess I missed it.

 

[visionary]

Sins defy logic, and defy God and His Kingdom, and His Laws. Who are we puny beings who think we can interpet God's Will any way we want. Who are we to taken down God's definitions of sin and say they no longer apply?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Visionary, your post appears to include only emotional appeals, not "the word of God."

Sins defy logic

Sins are inevitable.

Who are we puny beings who think we can interpet God's Will any way we want.

Indeed. God allows sin. Who are we to think we understand why He does?

Who are we to taken down God's definitions of sin and say they no longer apply?

Who are we to read confirmation in God's word that the law was added 430 years after Sinai and only until the Seed had come and then conclude that this is not in fact true? That we know better than God? That we would prefer it if the law was actually eternal rather than temporary?

BFA

 

[visionary]

sins will no longer be inevitable when the Lord is finished with them. They will not exist in His new Kingdom... and world to come

We are to understand what He has given us to understand, rather than fight His Word.

What law was added... but the penalty for transgression of His eternal law... and remedy.. which is not getting rid of His eternal Law.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

What law was added...

It's not hard to figure out. What happened 430 years after Abraham?

BFA