Endurance Of The Ten Commandments (incl. Sabbath)

[Cribstyl]

NIV - Gal 3:19 -What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.

The law was added...Not given in creation. Moses was the mediator between man and God.

The laws added were those on how transgression of the eternal laws would be handled... aka mediation.

You got to be kidding
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gal&c=3&v=19#comm/24

 

[dragNdrop]

BFA please stop going round in circles.

Let me put it like this, may be you guys will get it.
"For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." Rom 13:9-10
Romans 13 prove to us beyond doubt that loving our brethren and God will compel us to automatcally keep the law (since the law is all about keeping us from doing harm, one to another).

In verse 12 a sample of some of the laws is given including adultery, covetiousness, etc. These laws happen to belong amongst the ten commandments.

Again I ask: Since we see a clear evidence that love "love is the fulfilling of the law" (with some samples of the law given), why do we want to exclude the Fourth Commandments ?

It is this answer I expect from you.

DND Wrote: " I've cited the above passages to illustrate that is love man will compel us to fulfill the law including the ten commandments listed above."

BFA Replied: "Once a requirement is fully met (i.e. "fulfilled"), why must we continue to fully meet it. Do you pay your annual income tax over and over and over every week?
"

I do not understand your argument. I am pointing you to scripture demanding our love expressed in fulfiling the code. You use an irrelevant analogy to argue otherwise. Who is twisting the scriptures now ? The same applies to CribS.

I cited Dr Ford since I admire him for a rare ability to discern between SDA faults and bible truths.

 

[visionary]

You got to be kidding
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gal&c=3&v=19#comm/24

Understand the ten commandments are eternal. The Law of Moses deals with the dealing with transgression, sin, and the prophecies in annual sabbaths of "like manner" the spring feasts were fulfilled so also will the fall feasts for His second coming.

All that is written in the parchment is what is being done away with.. you already know that the temple services have been replaced with the heavenly sanctuary, and the our High Priest is Yeshua, and when we have a new heaven and earth we will be back to the Garden of Eden diet.. so what is left on the parchment that hass not been fulfilled.. the fall feasts.

NIV - Gal 3:19 -What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.

Originally Posted by CRIB
The law was added...Not given in creation. Moses was the mediator between man and God.

The laws added were those on how transgression of the eternal laws would be handled... aka mediation.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Understand the ten commandments are eternal.

In light of this claim, explain how you view Deuteronomy 5:1-5 and Galatians 3:17-19?

If the fourth commandment is eternal, shall we conclude that sabbath keeping began prior to creation?

The Law of Moses deals with the dealing with transgression, sin, and the prophecies in annual sabbaths of "like manner" the spring feasts were fulfilled so also will the fall feasts for His second coming.

Would this include all sabbaths listed in Leviticus 23, or only some of them? How do you decide?

All that is written in the parchment is what is being done away with..

You are aware, are you not, that the book of Moses (i.e. written in parchment) included the ten?

you already know that the temple services have been replaced with the heavenly sanctuary, and the our High Priest is Yeshua, and when we have a new heaven and earth we will be back to the Garden of Eden diet.. so what is left on the parchment that hass not been fulfilled.. the fall feasts.

If so, then the weekly sabbath has been fulfilled.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

BFA please stop going round in circles.

My reasoning may seem much more linear as you take more time to consider it.

Romans 13 prove to us beyond doubt that loving our brethren and God will compel us to automatcally keep the law (since the law is all about keeping us from doing harm, one to another).

No. Romans 13 tells us that, when we love, we fulfill the law. For love is the fulfilling of the law. You would have us belive that, when we love, we confirm that the ongoing existence of the law. That is not the meaning of fulfill.

Again I ask: Since we see a clear evidence that love "love is the fulfilling of the law" (with some samples of the law given), why do we want to exclude the Fourth Commandments ?

When we love, we fulfill the law. How could it be any more simple?

It is this answer I expect from you.

It's hard to expect anything in this forum. For example, I had hope that you might comment on the following (set out in my last post):

Galatians 3 is also clear. The law was added 430 years after Abraham and only until the Seed had come.

Galatians 4 is also clear. Paul labored in vain for those who observe elemental things such as days and months and seasons and years. Hagar represents the covenant that was from Sinai and God already gave the command to get rid of the slave woman.

Romans 7 is also clear. You were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that you might bear fruit for God.
​

I do not understand your argument. I am pointing you to scripture demanding our love expressed in fulfiling the code.

It demands love. Once we love, we fulfill the law. It does not demand "love expressed in fulfilling the code." That is a phrase invented by you.

You use an irrelevant analogy to argue otherwise.

It is not irrelevant. When the obligation of a law has been fully met, why must we keep meeting it? If we must keep meeting it, then the obligation has not been fully met. Please enter into dialogue regarding the meaning of the word "fulfill."

I cited Dr Ford since I admire him for a rare ability to discern between SDA faults and bible truths.

You are welcome to admire him. That is not persuasive to me.

BFA

 

[Avonia]

If the fourth commandment is eternal, shall we conclude that sabbath keeping began prior to creation?

There are moments when I wonder if SDAs are more concerned with Sabbath being immortal than eternal.

 

[visionary]

In light of this claim, explain how you view Deuteronomy 5:1-5 and Galatians 3:17-19?

Moses summoned all Israel and said:
Hear, O Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the LORD and you to declare to you the word of the LORD, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said:

Galatians 3:17-19 (New International Version)
17What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19What, then, was the purpose of the law?It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.

It was added because of transgressions

The Ten define the transgressions...
That which was added because of transgression is on the parchment... because it tells you hhow transgressions will be dealt with..

God's promises of inheritence has nothing to do with the law.. just like if I make you a promise has nothing to do with the Laws of this country even if I was the President of it.

If the fourth commandment is eternal, shall we conclude that sabbath keeping began prior to creation?

though there is no record that I am aware of... I would not be surprised,.. God is good at being consistent.

Would this include all sabbaths listed in Leviticus 23, or only some of them? How do you decide?

if Zecharius is any indication.. it looks like they will continue to be appointments with God for all eternity.

You are aware, are you not, that the book of Moses (i.e. written in parchment) included the ten?

You are aware that the Tem were specifically written in stone by God.. while Moses reiterated.

If so, then the weekly sabbath has been fulfilled.

BFA

Re-iternations of the Ten within the parchment is normal but does not devalue the Original.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

It was added because of transgressions

If it was added, how can we claim it was eternal?

If the covenant that included the commandments was made with Israel and not their forefathers, how can we claim that the commandments were eternal?

it looks like they will continue to be appointments with God for all eternity.

Will the passover be an appointment with God for all eternity? Like the weekly sabbath, the passover had a clear starting point. Neither has always been. Neither qualifies as "eternal."

You are aware that the Tem were specifically written in stone by God.

You are aware that the ministry that was engraved in letters on stone is the ministry of death that fades when compared with the ministry of the Spirit that brings life and that lasts (2 Corinthians 3). Right?

Re-iternations of the Ten within the parchment is normal but does not devalue the Original.

You indicated that all that was in parchment has been fulfilled. Are you now saying that some that were in parchment that were not fulfilled?

BFA

 

[dragNdrop]

BFA and Crib

Here is my problem with your reasoning. Your understanding of 'fulfill' is 'replace'. In otheer words, since love fulfills the law then the law is unnecessary. You miss the whole point of Paul.

Let me make an example. If you love your wife you fulfilled all the duties a husband must perform. You do not say that 'since I have love then I'll forget the duties.'

YOUR VERSION OF LOVE REPLACES THE LAW, PAULS VERSION UPHOLD THE LAW.

 

[visionary]

If it was added, how can we claim it was eternal?

If the covenant that included the commandments was made with Israel and not their forefathers, how can we claim that the commandments were eternal?



Will the passover be an appointment with God for all eternity? Like the weekly sabbath, the passover had a clear starting point. Neither has always been. Neither qualifies as "eternal."



You are aware that the ministry that was engraved in letters on stone is the ministry of death that fades when compared with the ministry of the Spirit that brings life and that lasts (2 Corinthians 3). Right?



You indicated that all that was in parchment has been fulfilled. Are you now saying that some that were in parchment that were not fulfilled?

BFA

Psalm 119:160
All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.

Yes the ministry engraved in letters on stone is the ministry of death, and pales in comparison to the ministry of the same letters engraved in the heart. Passover along with the other annual feasts are known as memorials, or appointments, and if God wants us to continue to remember His Work of Righteousness through these feasts throughout eternity, with Zechariah

Zechariah 14:16
And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Who am I to argue?

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I've heard the world "love" used quite a bit on this thread. Anyone care to elaborate on exactly what is meant by "love"?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Here is my problem with your reasoning. Your understanding of 'fulfill' is 'replace'. In otheer words, since love fulfills the law then the law is unnecessary.

That is not my understanding. An obligation that has been fulfilled has been fully met. If I pay your 2009 income taxes for you, that obligation has been fully met. You may choose to pay them too, but that would not be necessary. The obligation has been met. The obligation has not been replaced by another obligation, it has been met.

When you love, you meet the obligation of the law. You do not replace the obligation of the law, you meet it.

Let me make an example. If you love your wife you fulfilled all the duties a husband must perform. You do not say that 'since I have love then I'll forget the duties.'

Which marital responsibilities are governed by the law?

YOUR VERSION OF LOVE REPLACES THE LAW, PAULS VERSION UPHOLD THE LAW.

There is no difference between my version and Paul's. Both of us assert that the law is fulfilled through love. The word is fulfill.

Perhaps one of these days you will address the writings of Paul that I previously cited?

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I've heard the world "love" used quite a bit on this thread. Anyone care to elaborate on exactly what is meant by "love"?

1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
9For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
11When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

BFA

 

[Cribstyl]

BFA please stop going round in circles.

Let me put it like this, may be you guys will get it.
"For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." Rom 13:9-10
Romans 13 prove to us beyond doubt that loving our brethren and God will compel us to automatcally keep the law (since the law is all about keeping us from doing harm, one to another).

In verse 12 a sample of some of the laws is given including adultery, covetiousness, etc. These laws happen to belong amongst the ten commandments.

Again I ask: Since we see a clear evidence that love "love is the fulfilling of the law" (with some samples of the law given), why do we want to exclude the Fourth Commandments ?

It is this answer I expect from you.

DND Wrote: " I've cited the above passages to illustrate that is love man will compel us to fulfill the law including the ten commandments listed above."

BFA Replied: "Once a requirement is fully met (i.e. "fulfilled"), why must we continue to fully meet it. Do you pay your annual income tax over and over and over every week?
"

I do not understand your argument. I am pointing you to scripture demanding our love expressed in fulfiling the code. You use an irrelevant analogy to argue otherwise. Who is twisting the scriptures now ? The same applies to CribS.

I cited Dr Ford since I admire him for a rare ability to discern between SDA faults and bible truths.

The text says "love is the fulfulling of the law," not "love will compel us to keep the law." The text is saying LOVE is what fulfills the law. You're not saying the same thing.

DND, your comments are spin.

Rom 13:8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.




CRIB

 

[Cribstyl]

Understand the ten commandments are eternal.

False, where can I find that in scripture?????

The Law of Moses deals with the dealing with transgression, sin, and the prophecies in annual sabbaths of "like manner" the spring feasts were fulfilled so also will the fall feasts for His second coming.

All that is written in the parchment is what is being done away with.. you already know that the temple services have been replaced with the heavenly sanctuary, and the our High Priest is Yeshua, and when we have a new heaven and earth we will be back to the Garden of Eden diet.. so what is left on the parchment that hass not been fulfilled.. the fall feasts.

False, the law of Moses and the law of God is the same.


CRIB

 

[visionary]

Luke 10:25
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Now I will ask you the same question... do you have the same answer.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Luke 10:25
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Now I will ask you the same question... do you have the same answer.

I believe that His answer included a command that the man must sell all he had. Is that your requirement? Is it mine? Why or why not?

BFA

 

[visionary]

And the Lord asked a second question? How do you answer that? Can you answer the same as the lawyer?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

And the Lord asked a second question? How do you answer that? Can you answer the same as the lawyer?

It seems that you may have missed my post entirely. Must I sell all I have in order to be saved (or to maintain my salvation once I've received it)?

BFA

 

[visionary]

Sorry, no I didn't miss your question.. I am still working on you answering the Lords.