Breetai said:
I have been amillennialist for most of my life. I can see that we are free from sin right now. Jesus made us blameless from sin when He died and rose from death. We are free right now! Many Christians still have to realize that. I have no problem seeing that God's kingdom is with us now. Jesus said that himself in Luke 17:21. But, some things must still be taken literally. Acts 1:11 says, "men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." In what manner did Jesus go up into heaven? Two verses earlier we read, "he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight." That was a very literal ascension into heaven, just as it will be a very literal descension from heaven onto the Earth. You preterists seem to ignore this verse altogather. The second coming of Jesus will be a literal event that everyone will see. We read that: "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." I cannot see this as being figurative at all. The context demands that we see this coming in the clouds as a literal event.
When we look at the pattern of the Old Covenant system concerning the Priesthood service in the tabernacle of Moses, it becomes clear how Jesus would have fulfilled all things during the time of that Generation.
The high priest did not have to wait 2000 years to come out of the Holy of Holies on the Day of Judgment Atonement. If he did not come out within a short period of time there would not have been any salvation for Israel, and the High Priest would have been struck dead.
During that time of waiting for Jesus to appear the second time the early church was saved by faith. They looked forward to their salvation even though they were saved by faith through grace, but their faith was in something still hoped for second appearing.
Hebrews 9:28 is generally one of the first verses offered as proof there is to be a yet future return of Jesus. Let us notice a few things about the text.
The inspired writer says in verse 26 Jesus had appeared once to put away sin by sacrificing himself. The Greek word translated once is hapax and normally means once for all time, see Jude 3, I Peter 3:18. The writer then says Jesus shall appear the second time unto salvation, vs. 28.
In Luke 21 Jesus spoke of Jerusalems coming destruction: then shall they see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory vs. 27. He said when these things come to pass then look up and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh vs. 28. In verse 32 he said it would be in that generation.
The word redemption used here is the identical word used in Romans 3:24; 8:23; I Corinthians 1:30; Ephesians 1:7,14, etc. to speak of the redemption of salvation.
With these few facts before us let us draw a conclusion.
One complete salvation DID NOT come at the cross according to the Apostles. And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand.
(Romans 13:11-12). who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Peter 5)
These statement were made some years after the cross. And according to Peter their complete salvation was ready to be revealed in the last time of the old covenant.
Salvation was ratified or confirmed through His Cross [not at the Cross], and consummated in His Parousia. Think about it - if salvation was all in all secured at or on the Cross, then they had no need to further look for its completion.
Christs Coming in AD70 completed it. Again, salvation came through or via the Cross of Calvary, the Victory of the Cross had an out working to completion in that generation. This is NOT saying that there was some inherent deficiency in the Cross, NO, it is saying the process of salvation started and finished with the Coming of God in Christ - His First and Second comings being the book-ends of Salvation - both encapsulating the Cross.
Hebrews 9:28 says Jesus would appear a second time, not many times, unto salvation. Jesus said he was going to return at the destruction of Jerusalem and this would be the redemption [salvation] of his Body. (Luke 21:20-28) He said it would be in that generation. (Luke 21:23) Therefore Jesus return in the destruction of Jerusalem, for the purpose of redemption, is the return of Hebrews 9:28.
The force of the word second as used here is the same as once; Christ would not appear again and again. When did our High Priest come out from the Holy of Holies to present Himself to the people? This question seems to be ignored by many Christians today. It is of vital importance, however, because unless our High Priest appears out side of Holy of Holies who can be saved? The Bible explains and interprets itself.
The example is set in the Old Testament. Every year on the Day of Atonement the high priest would enter in to the Presence behind the veil in the Holiest of all. Also the tenth day of this seventh month shall be the Day of Atonement. It shall be a holy convocation for you; you shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire to the LORD. And you shall do no work on that same day, for it is the Day of Atonement, to make atonement for you before the LORD your God. (Leviticus 23:27,28)
The High Priest must come out from the Holy of Holies to present Himself to the people so they know the blood of the sacrifice atoned for their sins. If the High Priest does not appear the people have no assurance of salvation. No appearance, no forgiveness.
Since Christs coming in 70 was the coming for redemption, and since he was to return only once for salvation per Hebrews 9:28, then Christs return in 70 was the final coming of Christ.
This conclusion is corroborated in Hebrews 10:33-39. The writer addresses Christs coming in judgment and salvation: For yet in a very little while, the Coming One will come and he will not delay. [Tragically, most of Gods people insist he HAS DELAYED! which makes him a false prophet
The Bible has a standard of determining the validity of a prophet! It is Jehovah himself that gave the criteria for determining whether a prophet was true or false; if a prophets prediction did not come true he was a false prophet, Deuteronomy 18:15ff. If God does not keep the WHEN part of his promises, he has not kept his promise!
In the margin of your Bible, beside Hebrews 9:28, write Luke 21:28 and Hebrews 10:33-39. These verses give divine commentary on Hebrews 9:28.
Upon what basis can anyone postulate a future coming of Christ? He promised to come [once] again for salvation. He said when it would be; and he kept his word. It is something to ponder.
Act 1:9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they were looking stedfastly into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 who also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye looking into heaven? this Jesus, who was received up from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as ye beheld him going into heaven.
Verse 11 says, ...shall so come in like manner as ye beheld him going into heaven. How exactly did Christ go into heaven? Verse 9 says, ...a cloud received him out of their sight.
Now compare these.
Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 26:64 Jesus said unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.
Dan 7:13 I saw in the night-visions, and, behold, there came with the clouds of heaven one like unto a son of man, and he came even to the ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Isa 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, Jehovah rideth upon a swift cloud, and cometh unto Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
God coming with clouds of glory is a recurring theme throughout Scripture.
The best way to interpret scripture is to let scripture interpret scripture.
The second coming. Revelation 1:7 Behold, He cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him, and they also who pierced Him; and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so. Amen.
John wrote that this was the "revelation (or revealing) of Jesus Christ" (verse 1) who was coming "with the clouds, and every eye will see Him and those who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the earth (or land) will wail due to Him. Yes, Amen" (verse 7) . This is the main purpose of Revelation. The revealing of Jesus to the "tribes of the earth (or land)." Now, we must identify, from Scripture, who those "tribes" were, and who were the people who pierced Jesus was and see (his return).
To do that, we must keep in mind this simple rule of interpreting the Bible: let Scripture interpret Scripture. We can do that quite easily by looking at Zechariah 12:10-14.
And I will pour out on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and prayers. And they (i.e., the inhabitants of Jerusalem) shall look on Me whom they have pierced, and shall mourn for Him. As one mourns for an only son, and will be bitter over Him like the bitterness over the firstborn. In that day (i.e., when they look on Him whom they had pierced) the mourning in Jerusalem will be great, like the mourning of Hadad-rimmon in the valley of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, families by families alone; the family of the house of David alone, and their wives alone; the family of Nathan alone, and their wives alone; the family of the house of Levi alone, and their wives alone; the family of Shimei alone, and their wives alone; all the families who are left, family by family alone, and their wives alone.
Obviously, this is the foundation for John "every eye will see Him and those who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the earth (or land)will wail due to Him." The Hebrew word for "family" is mishpachah and it means "family; by extension a tribe or people." So, in essence, Zechariah was saying that the "tribes of the land" would mourn for Him whom they had pierced. Who were those "tribes?" "The inhabitants of Jerusalem." This also helps us identify the "earth" in Revelation 1:7. According to Zechariah, the "earth" is the land of Palestine, specifically, Jerusalem. Also, it is those tribes, i.e., the nation of Israel, who would "look on Me whom they had pierced." And because of that, "the mourning in Jerusalem" would be great. With all of this information, we can see that the "tribes of the earth" in Revelation 1:7 are the nation of Israel. The "earth" is Palestine. The land that would mourn is Jerusalem.
So, the main purpose of Revelation would be to reveal Jesus the nation of Israel. The place of this revealing would be Jerusalem. Lastly, this revealing would be to those who pierced Him, i.e., the Jews. This is not a general reference to the Jewish nation as some commentators state, but to Christ's contemporary generation. Therefore, the book of Revelation must have been written before that event.
For John Zechariah 12:10 was applicable to Jesus' crucifixion; but it would receive final fulfillment when "all the tribes of the earth" the inhabitants of Jerusalem would mourn when they looked on him whom they had pierced. This was sufficiently specific as to subject or time that there can be no misunderstanding. As shown Zechariah 12:10 is the background for Revelation 1:7 and the context demands the event be in the first century generation.
Ok now it is up to you to show me that John and Zechariah's teaching was heresy and these two prophets of God did not know what they were talking about because the people of our day are the ones who pierced Jesus and the ever eye to see Jesus return. And please show me from scripture and the Greek were "all the tribes of the earth" in the Zechariah 12:10 means all the people in the world?
As I have already said the Old Testament Jewish saints never had a concept of a second 2.000 years away from the first coming. I will be looking forward to you showing me were Zechariah did not know what he was talking about.