End Times View

[Biblewriter]

This is a general response, no specific statement is referenced.

First, you obviously define a Christian very differently that I and many others do. There are three commonly used definitions of a Christian.

One is "someone who lives by the commands of God." I once even had a Jew tell me that he was a good Christian. I reject this definition.

One is "someone who says he (or she) is a Christian." This seems to be your definition of a Christian. I also reject this definition.

My definition of a Christian is "someone who has trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ for the salvation of their soul." Such a person now belongs to him, and has by that trust become a child of God. Those who have never so trusted the Lord Jesus are not his children. Those who have (or will) so trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ are the elect of God, and therefore cannot be deceived by the Antichrist.

You repeatedly discuss your theory that pre-tribbers will be deceived by the Antichrist because they will think that he is Jesus when he comes.

There is no possibility that any pre-tribber with any significant knowledge of the doctrine could be so deceived. This is because pre-tribbers do not think that Jesus will come and bless them in this world. They think that Jesus will come and physically snatch them out of this world into heaven.

The only way a satanic pretender could fool them into believing that he was the Jesus they are expecting would be to make them think that they had been physically removed from this world and that they are already in heaven. No prophetic scripture even implies that such a thing will ever happen. But nothing else would convince a pre-tribber that Jesus had come.

You continually insist that the Antichrist is Satan himself pretending to be Jesus. From the way you present it, you seem to think that he will claim to be Jesus returned. But no scripture even hints at this idea.

The Antichrist will not claim to be Jesus returned. He will claim that Jesus was a fraud, and that he is the true messiah. This claim will not even attract any lover of Jesus.

 

[heavensblade23]

The Antichrist will not claim to be Jesus returned. He will claim that Jesus was a fraud, and that he is the true messiah. This claim will not even attract any lover of Jesus.

Some people say Satan likes to counterfeit things that are God's, and thus he will be a counterfeit version of Jesus. Some people speculate that the seemingly fatal headwound the beast receives will culminate in a counterfeit resurrection after 3 days. Makes sense to me, at least, though I see your POV.

 

[garry2]

z cannot answer #41, and will not admit it's true also.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Some people say Satan likes to counterfeit things that are God's, and thus he will be a counterfeit version of Jesus. Some people speculate that the seemingly fatal headwound the beast receives will culminate in a counterfeit resurrection after 3 days. Makes sense to me, at least, though I see your POV.

I have wondered for many years where Christians come up with the antichrist having a head wound. He must have more then one head according to the verse where it talks about this...
Rev 13:3 ~ And I saw one of his heads (plural) as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. From what I get out of this is, at the beginning of this chapter it says this... Rev 13:1 ~ And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name F17 of blasphemy.
Now that is telling me that one of his kingdoms is going to fall and rise back up, or something entirely different then an actual head wound.

 

[Biblewriter]

Some people say Satan likes to counterfeit things that are God's, and thus he will be a counterfeit version of Jesus. Some people speculate that the seemingly fatal headwound the beast receives will culminate in a counterfeit resurrection after 3 days. Makes sense to me, at least, though I see your POV.

The seemingly fatal wound is in one of the heads of the beast with seven heads and ten horns. The individual called "the Beast" is the eleventh horn on that beast, not one of the heads.

 

[zeke37]

BW:

This is a general response, no specific statement is referenced.

First, you obviously define a Christian very differently that I and many others do. There are three commonly used definitions of a Christian.

One is "someone who lives by the commands of God." I once even had a Jew tell me that he was a good Christian. I reject this definition.

I assume that you mean a Jew in the religous sense? Christ was a Jew, as you know...as were the earliest converts.

One is "someone who says he (or she) is a Christian." This seems to be your definition of a Christian. I also reject this definition.

saying a thing and doing a thing are different things.

My definition of a Christian is "someone who has trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ for the salvation of their soul." Such a person now belongs to him, and has by that trust become a child of God. Those who have never so trusted the Lord Jesus are not his children. Those who have (or will) so trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ are the elect of God, and therefore cannot be deceived by the Antichrist.

well, then why the warnings of Christ and the apostles to not be deceived?

We differ in our opinions on who the ELECT are. The elect are not just all Christians, or even those that you would call real Christians....but only those small percentage of Christians who God sent here on purpose foir their specific role....to further His plan...through whom He bring forth and fulfills prophesy...

Only the elect witnesses (likened to 7000), who shall stand trial in front of Satan, shall not be deceived...ALL others shall be, including all other Christians...we are going into captivity.

I know that you feel that the Assyrian is a subject that is left out among scholars....The Assyrian is the antiChrist who is really Satan physically cast from heaven with supernatural abilities...pretending to be Messiah returned....fooling the world.

AntiChrist means he who comes instead of Christ

You repeatedly discuss your theory that pre-tribbers will be deceived by the Antichrist because they will think that he is Jesus when he comes.

it is because they(you) already believe that Jesus comes first before Satan, but that is just not so....can't you see my point?

There is no possibility that any pre-tribber with any significant knowledge of the doctrine could be so deceived. This is because pre-tribbers do not think that Jesus will come and bless them in this world. They think that Jesus will come and physically snatch them out of this world into heaven.

I know your basic belief/theology/tradition...but the flood of lies that will come from the dragon's mouth, will convince you (the world, all but the elect) of a perfectly good and acceptable reason as to why he is on earth and you have not left as of yet....

of course this is hypothetical, but something like...."we are going to convert a few good folk first, (maybe your family)and then zoooooom, were off...just a few more days and we are off...."

The only way a satanic pretender could fool them into believing that he was the Jesus they are expecting would be to make them think that they had been physically removed from this world and that they are already in heaven. No prophetic scripture even implies that such a thing will ever happen. But nothing else would convince a pre-tribber that Jesus had come.

unless they believed the lies that come out of his mouth..."I am here to gather you good people.....almost ready to leave....just a few more now....hang on a little while longer" it is all about the lies and the people eat it up....blowing smoke and brimstone

You continually insist that the Antichrist is Satan himself pretending to be Jesus.

Of course

From the way you present it, you seem to think that he will claim to be Jesus returned. But no scripture even hints at this idea.

sure it does...you have the option to accept it as such or not...

The Antichrist will not claim to be Jesus returned.

Sure he will...

He will claim that Jesus was a fraud, and that he is the true messiah. This claim will not even attract any lover of Jesus.

that is a traditional belief of men...sorry, but that is totally fiction....


He will claim to be God (Christ returned to rapture them when the time is right), as he has in the past and as his types do in the history...and as even some of his names mean...lucifer...tyrus...

Satan and his angels comes disguised as an angels of light! he is the false prophet, as opposed to Christ Who is the true prophet


and we know that he looks like a lamb, and speaks like a dragon.....Rev13
and we know that the fake rider of Rev6:2(bow=rainbow appearance="toxon"=fake cheap immitation fabric) is Satan on a white horse...(Who else comes on a white horse?)

Christ warnes us not to seek Him on the earth in that last hour...a warning that we are to heed to....

even if you think it is Jesus come to rapture you away, if he is on the earth, then it is not Him....and that is the warning that I would like you to come away with...Christ warns us not to look for Him then, so we are to know that there is a deception coming...

in the so called pre trib rapture as you understand it, Christ does not physically touch down on earth...correct? Remember that part of your belief...it is called the HOUR OF TEMPTATION, for a reason...
__________________

Heavensblade:

Some people say Satan likes to counterfeit things that are God's, and thus he will be a counterfeit version of Jesus. Some people speculate that the seemingly fatal headwound the beast receives will culminate in a counterfeit resurrection after 3 days. Makes sense to me, at least, though I see your POV.

the deadly wound happens to the political beast nation (NWO)....it should be a peaceful world system, but this system fails..war happens, thus the system receives a deadly wound.

this deadly wound will happen at the mid way point of the hour of temptation, the world wil be on the brink of WW3.....and that is the precise moment when Satan and his fallen angels make their dramatic entrance and fool the world into thinking that they are Christ and the heavely army coming down to gather the bride...

garry2:

z cannot answer #41, and will not admit it's true also.

I have not been here to respond...(showing the love again eh Garry2)

BW:

The seemingly fatal wound is in one of the heads of the beast with seven heads and ten horns. The individual called "the Beast" is the eleventh horn on that beast, not one of the heads.

that individual is the Assyrian..the false prophet.....Babylonian.....the son of Perdition....the man of sin.....etc...it is Satan who will be cast from heaven...see Rev12

in His service
c

 

[garry2]

BW:


I assume that you mean a Jew in the religous sense? Christ was a Jew, as you know...as were the earliest converts.



saying a thing and doing a thing are different things.




well, then why the warnings of Christ and the apostles to not be deceived?

We differ in our opinions on who the ELECT are. The elect are not just all Christians, or even those that you would call real Christians....but only those small percentage of Christians who God sent here on purpose foir their specific role....to further His plan...through whom He bring forth and fulfills prophesy...

Only the elect witnesses (likened to 7000), who shall stand trial in front of Satan, shall not be deceived...ALL others shall be, including all other Christians...we are going into captivity.

I know that you feel that the Assyrian is a subject that is left out among scholars....

The Assyrian is the antiChrist who is really Satan physically cast from heaven with supernatural abilities...pretending to be Messiah returned....fooling the world.

AntiChrist means he who comes instead of Christ

All not Bibical.



it is because they(you) already believe that Jesus comes first before Satan, but that is just not so....can't you see my point?

We know the manner in which Jesus comes.



I know your basic belief/theology/tradition...but the flood of lies that will come from the dragon's mouth, will convince you (the world, all but the elect) of a perfectly good and acceptable reason as to why he is on earth and you have not left as of yet....

No but you are convinced already.

of course this is hypothetical, but something like...."we are going to convert a few good folk first, (maybe your family)and then zoooooom, were off...just a few more days and we are off...."

Is that what we think, sounds like from someone posessed.




unless they believed the lies that come out of his mouth..."I am here to gather you good people.....almost ready to leave....just a few more now....hang on a little while longer" it is all about the lies and the people eat it up....blowing smoke and brimstone

Another bit of unscriptual fantasy.



Of course



sure it does...you have the option to accept it as such or not...




Sure he will...

Great arguments there z.



that is a traditional belief of men...sorry, but that is totally fiction....


He will claim to be God (Christ returned to rapture them when the time is right), as he has in the past and as his types do in the history...and as even some of his names mean...lucifer...tyrus...

Satan and his angels comes disguised as an angels of light! he is the false prophet, as opposed to Christ Who is the true prophet


and we know that he looks like a lamb, and speaks like a dragon.....Rev13
and we know that the fake rider of Rev6:2(bow=rainbow appearance="toxon"=fake cheap immitation fabric) is Satan on a white horse...(Who else comes on a white horse?)

Christ warnes us not to seek Him on the earth in that last hour...a warning that we are to heed to....

Yet you preach the watching for him even now.


even if you think it is Jesus come to rapture you away, if he is on the earth, then it is not Him....
and that is the warning that I would like you to come away with...Christ warns us not to look for Him then, so we are to know that there is a deception coming...

in the so called pre trib rapture as you understand it, Christ does not physically touch down on earth...correct? Remember that part of your belief...it is called the HOUR OF TEMPTATION, for a reason...

Revelation 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Jesus said He will keep us from the hour of temptation.
__________________

Heavensblade:


the deadly wound happens to the political beast nation (NWO)....it should be a peaceful world system, but this system fails..war happens, thus the system receives a deadly wound.

this deadly wound will happen at the mid way point of the hour of temptation, the world wil be on the brink of WW3.....and that is the precise moment when

Satan and his fallen angels make their dramatic entrance and fool the world into thinking that they are Christ and the heavely army coming down to gather the bride...

Show where that is written, it isn't but is a sectarian teaching from man.
garry2:

I have not been here to respond...(showing the love again eh Garry2)

Like I said you will not admit it's true, your response was weak and didn't address what bw said and is non scriptual.

BW:


that individual is the Assyrian..the false prophet.....Babylonian.....the son of Perdition....the man of sin.....etc...it is Satan who will be cast from heaven...see Rev12

in His service
c

Rev 12 dosn't say that satan is the assyrian, false prophet babylonian, the son of perdition, the man of sin etc. be honest.

 

[Biblewriter]

Christ warnes us not to seek Him on the earth in that last hour...a warning that we are to heed to....

even if you think it is Jesus come to rapture you away, if he is on the earth, then it is not Him....and that is the warning that I would like you to come away with...Christ warns us not to look for Him then, so we are to know that there is a deception coming...

It is nonsense to warn pre-tribbers of this. I do not know even one pre-tribber who does not already know this. Your theory about fooling Christians by telling them they will be taken away soon is simple nonsense. It would not fool even one pre-tribber I have ever met.

in the so called pre trib rapture as you understand it, Christ does not physically touch down on earth...correct? Remember that part of your belief...it is called the HOUR OF TEMPTATION, for a reason...

So if we are still here, no one who is here is our Jesus. Period. And every pre-tribber knows this.

that individual is the Assyrian..the false prophet.....Babylonian.....the son of Perdition....the man of sin.....etc...it is Satan who will be cast from heaven...see Rev12

No scripture even suggests that these individuals are all the same.

There are five different evil men specifically described in the end time prophecies in the Bible.

These are:

The Beast, the ruler of the revived Roman empire.

The king, the ruler of revived Judah, which is now called Israel. (I believe that this individual is also the false prophet, the man of sin, the son of perdition, and the Antichrist, but this is interpretation.)

The Assyrian, the ruler of revived Assyria. (I believe that this individual is also the King of the North of Daniel 11 and the he goat's little horn of Daniel 8, but that is interpretation.)

The king of the South of Daniel 11. This is unquestionably the end time ruler of Egypt.

Gog, the end time ruler of Russia.

 

[zeke37]

It is nonsense to warn pre-tribbers of this. I do not know even one pre-tribber who does not already know this. Your theory about fooling Christians by telling them they will be taken away soon is simple nonsense. It would not fool even one pre-tribber I have ever met.


All I ask is that you keep that in mind, for I believe that is going to be a large part of Satan's lies...part of the flood that comes and takes one of two away....that turns 5 of 10 Brides in waiting, into harlots....that leads down a wide path...that go apostate...that worship Satan when he is cast to the earth physically and pretends to be Jesus returned to rapture you....to play his role as the antiChrist, but he is not the true prophet...he is the false prophet in disguise as an angel of light...



supernatural abilities as angels have...fools the world

So if we are still here, no one who is here is our Jesus. Period. And every pre-tribber knows this.

but every pre tribber knows that the gathering to Christ cannot happen until after the son of perdition is revealed....2Thes2, yet they also believe that there is another hidden gathering to Christ before that time....a direct contradiction.


No scripture even suggests that these individuals are all the same.

sure they do....look at his deeds...

There are five different evil men specifically described in the end time prophecies in the Bible.

These are:

The Beast, the ruler of the revived Roman empire.

Satan cast physically from heaven to the earth for a short season to deceive the world with a flood of lies....lamb/dragon

The king, the ruler of revived Judah, which is now called Israel. (I believe that this individual is also the false prophet, the man of sin, the son of perdition, and the Antichrist, but this is interpretation.)

I am not sure why you believe this...but I certainly do not see any revived Judahic leader, none besides that same entity (fallen angel) Satan....claiming to be Jesus Christ, God returned...who eventually will take over that area for sure and claim to be God from Jerusalem....(claim to be the Cornerstone of the Temple)

The Assyrian, the ruler of revived Assyria. (I believe that this individual is also the King of the North of Daniel 11 and the he goat's little horn of Daniel 8, but that is interpretation.)

Daniel's king of the north is the same antiChrist....who's political beast will be what we now call Europe Eu....

The king of the South of Daniel 11. This is unquestionably the end time ruler of Egypt.

I believe this to be a future Muslim unity.

Gog, the end time ruler of Russia.

Esau will come against Jacob....(I believe that Great Britain and it's children are direct decendants of the scattered northern tribes (as are many other countries) and as such, Russia will come against USA in that hour of temptation....probably at the very end...the gathering armies in Megeddio in the east, and the Esau vs. Jacob in the west (alaska possibly-interpretation)


let's discuss the Assyrian....in a Chistian manner....

in His service
c

 

[garry2]

It is nonsense to warn pre-tribbers of this. I do not know even one pre-tribber who does not already know this. Your theory about fooling Christians by telling them they will be taken away soon is simple nonsense. It would not fool even one pre-tribber I have ever met.


All I ask is that you keep that in mind, for I believe that is going to be a large part of Satan's lies...part of the flood that comes and takes one of two away....that turns 5 of 10 Brides in waiting, into harlots....that leads down a wide path...that go apostate...that worship Satan when he is cast to the earth physically and pretends to be Jesus returned to rapture you....to play his role as the antiChrist, but he is not the true prophet...he is the false prophet in disguise as an angel of light...



supernatural abilities as angels have...fools the world

So if we are still here, no one who is here is our Jesus. Period. And every pre-tribber knows this.

but every pre tribber knows that the gathering to Christ cannot happen until after the son of perdition is revealed....2Thes2, yet they also believe that there is another hidden gathering to Christ before that time....a direct contradiction.

There is a catching up to Christ in the clouds in the air, which is Bibical, but you talk about a gathering to Christ on the earth , so they are obviously not the same event.

No scripture even suggests that these individuals are all the same.

sure they do....look at his deeds...

There are five different evil men specifically described in the end time prophecies in the Bible.

These are:

The Beast, the ruler of the revived Roman empire.

Satan cast physically from heaven to the earth for a short season to deceive the world with a flood of lies....lamb/dragon

The king, the ruler of revived Judah, which is now called Israel. (I believe that this individual is also the false prophet, the man of sin, the son of perdition, and the Antichrist, but this is interpretation.)

I am not sure why you believe this...but I certainly do not see any revived Judahic leader, none besides that same entity (fallen angel) Satan....claiming to be Jesus Christ, God returned...who eventually will take over that area for sure and claim to be God from Jerusalem....(claim to be the Cornerstone of the Temple)

The Assyrian, the ruler of revived Assyria. (I believe that this individual is also the King of the North of Daniel 11 and the he goat's little horn of Daniel 8, but that is interpretation.)

Daniel's king of the north is the same antiChrist....who's political beast will be what we now call Europe Eu....

The king of the South of Daniel 11. This is unquestionably the end time ruler of Egypt.

I believe this to be a future Muslim unity.

Gog, the end time ruler of Russia.

Esau will come against Jacob....(I believe that Great Britain and it's children are direct decendants of the scattered northern tribes (as are many other countries) and as such, Russia will come against USA in that hour of temptation....probably at the very end...the gathering armies in Megeddio in the east, and the Esau vs. Jacob in the west (alaska possibly-interpretation)


let's discuss the Assyrian....in a Chistian manner....

in His service
c

....

 

[Bible2]

Biblewriter posted in message #25:

The following two scriptures both specifically
mention a coming, but they describe very different
things.

... (John 14:1-3)
... (Jude 14-15)

In the first of these, Jesus very specifically says
He "will come again, and receive you to myself; that
where I am, there ye may be also." In the second one
"the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints."
In the first one he comes for us, in the second one
he comes with us. These are two radically different
concepts. (And as to their respective timing, if he
comes for us, and also comes with us, the coming for
us obviously happens before the coming with us.)

Actually, John 14:3b and Jude 1:14b will happen at
the same second coming, which will be after the
tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). When Jesus comes,
He will first resurrect and rapture the Church into
the sky where He will be (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).
Then the Church will be judged (Psalms 50:4-5, cf.
Mark 13:27) and married (Revelation 19:7) in the sky
before mounting white horses and descending back down
from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation
19:14) as He wages war at Armageddon. So the rapture
up to Jesus and the coming back down with Jesus will
happen at the same second coming. The Bible nowhere
refers to multiple future "comings" of Jesus; it
always refers to a single future "coming" of Jesus,
and says that it will be after the tribulation (Mark
13:24-27); Jesus' coming to gather together (rapture)
the Church must destroy the Antichrist
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That's why the Church will
still be on the earth during the Antichrist's reign
(Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4).

Biblewriter posted in message #25:

... (Acts 1:9-11) In this case, our Lord did not
make any kind of a public display.

That's not the point of Acts 1:9-11. Instead, Acts
1:9-12 means that just as at His ascension Jesus
rose physically from the Mount of Olives into the
sky, so at His second-coming descent Jesus will
physically descend from the sky to set His feet on
the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4).

Nowhere does the Bible ever refer to a Yo-Yo coming
of Jesus where He descends down from the sky but
then bounces back up again before He lands on the
earth.

Biblewriter posted in message #25:

... (Revelation 1:7) In the first case it is a
private affair for only his believers, in the second
"every eye shall see him."

Nowhere does the Bible ever teach that the second
coming of Jesus will be a private affair only for
His believers.

Biblewriter posted in message #25:

... (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

This coming is specifically mentioned, but it does
not even resemble the coming specifically mentioned
here:

... (Revelation 19:11-16)

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 doesn't have to resemble
Revelation 19:11-16 to be referring to the same second
coming, just as Matthew 24:29-31 doesn't have to
resemble Revelation 19:11-16 to be referring to the
same second coming. All three passages simply focus
on different details of the same event. Matthew
24:29-31 shows that the "gathering together" (rapture)
of the Church (2 Thessalonians 2:1) happens at the
same second coming as Revelation 19:11-16, even
though Revelation 19:11-16 is describing what will
happen after the gathering together (cf. Revelation
19:7) has already taken place.

 

[Bible2]

Markea posted in message #28:

Many in Christendom continue to teach that the church
is Israel, regardless of the fact that the bible does
not teach that at all.

The Bible does teach that the Church is Israel
(Revelation 21:9b,12b), for Jews in the Church remain
Israel (Romans 11:1b), and Gentiles in the Church
have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17), made
fellowcitizens in Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19), made
the very seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:29). This
is necessary because the New Covenant/Testament that
saves us (Matthew 26:28) was made only with Israel
(Jeremiah 31:31,34b), so that if we aren't grafted
into Israel we can't be saved.

 

[Bible2]

Markea posted in message #32:

The problem with this is that you're applying Matthew
24 and Mark 13 to the church of God, when the church
of God didn't even exist at this point in time.

Matthew 24 and Mark 13, just as John 14, foretell
events that will transpire in the future, after the
Church of God has already existed for two thousand
years.

Markea posted in message #32:

The context of these chapters reveal this... those
in JUDEA should flee to the mountains... pray that
it's not on the Sabbath...

There are many churches in Judaea today. And
regarding Matthew 24:20's reference to the Sabbath,
the parallel verse in Mark 13:18 doesn't mention the
Sabbath, so the Sabbath isn't a sine qua non of the
point of Matthew 24:20. Some in the Church choose
to keep the Sabbath, while others don't (Romans
14:5-6).

Matthew 24 is addressing Christians, those who will
be hated by all nations for their faith in the name
of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9b). There are no
Christians outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-5).

 

[Bible2]

Biblewriter posted in message #41:

The Antichrist will not claim to be Jesus returned.

The Antichrist probably won't claim to be Jesus
returned, but he could claim to be the embodiment of
Christ returned, for to the Antichrist (as to all
antichrists) Jesus himself isn't the Christ (1 John
2:22).

Biblewriter posted in message #41:

He will claim that Jesus was a fraud, and that he is
the true messiah.

Actually, he could be a little more subtle than that.
Most of the world thinks Jesus was a straight-up guy,
so to attack Jesus head-on wouldn't gain the
Antichrist many followers. Instead, the Antichrist
could say that Jesus was a great guy, but wasn't the
Christ Himself. The Antichrist could say that the
regular man-of-flesh Jesus was merely temporarily
indwelt by the Divine Spirit of Christ, like wine
filling a glass, so that the Divine Spirit of Christ
Himself never became flesh. This will be a key
doctrine of the Antichrist, as it is of all
antichrists (2 John 1:7; 1 John 4:3).

So what the Antichrist could claim is that after the
regular man-of-flesh Jesus died a regular death (no
crucifixion for our sins or resurrection), the Divine
Spirit of Christ returned up to heaven, only to come
back to earth two thousand years later to dwell within
the Antichrist just as the Divine Spirit of Christ had
dwelt within Jesus.

So the Antichrist could say: "Look, Jesus is dead
and not here. But Christ is alive and here, right
here within me, to be worshipped and served as God
through me, just as He was worshipped and served
as God through Jesus (John 20:28). So when you see
me you are seeing the second coming of Christ".

Then the Antichrist could take a further step in
order to bring the world into Luciferianism
(Revelation 13:4). He could say: "I must reveal
to you the original and true name of the Christ;
it was never 'Jesus', but always 'Lucifer'. Our
God isn't 'Jesus Christ' but 'Lucifer Christ',
for Lucifer is the morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and
Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16).
So Jesus was indwelt by Lucifer, showing to the
world how loving and kind our Lord Lucifer is.
I will show you the same thing".

Of course the truth is that Lucifer fell from his
office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became
Satan (Luke 10:18). Jesus then took over the office
of morning star (Revelation 22:16).

But the Antichrist could convince the world otherwise,
especially when the world sees the amazing miracles
which the False Prophet of the Antichrist will be
able to do by the power of Lucifer (2 Thessalonians
2:9, Revelation 13:13-18, 19:20).

The Antichrist could say: "Look, just as at His
first coming Lucifer Christ showed His power and
divinity through miracles (John 3:2), so now at His
second coming He is again showing His power and
divinity through miracles. If you accept the miracles
of His first coming as proof of His divinity, then you
must accept the miracles of His second coming as proof
of His divinity".

Of course, this is not true at all because Jesus
warned us that false Christs and prophets would come
and do miracles to try to deceive us (Matthew 24:24).
And Paul expressly said that the Antichrist's coming
would be accompanied by Satanic miracles
(2 Thessalonians 2:9).

So it is not by miracles that we determine the truth,
but by the Word of God, the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16).

So the Antichrist will have to say that the Bible is
filled with many errors and lies of fallible and evil
men, and that he is restoring to the world the
original and true teachings of God.

He could claim that Lucifer isn't Satan, but that the
God of the Old Testament (YHWH) is Satan, that
even 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 together
prove that YHWH and Satan are the same entity, the
single entity which moved David to number Israel.

Of course the truth is that all 2 Samuel 24:1 and
1 Chronicles 21:1 together show is that YHWH used
Satan to move David. YHWH elsewhere rebuked Satan
(Zechariah 3:2), so they are in no way the same
entity.

But the Antichrist could nonetheless convince the
world that they are, thereby greatly blaspheming YHWH
(Revelation 13:5) in order to turn the world away
from YHWH and into the arms of Lucifer (Revelation
13:4).

But Jesus confirmed that YHWH is the true God
(Mark 12:29-31, cf. Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus
19:18b).

But the Antichrist could claim that Jesus never
actually said that, that Mark 12:29-31 is just
the invention of mistaken or lying men writing long
after Jesus had died.

But those who really know Jesus can recognize His
voice (John 10:27) in the scriptures. Those who
really are Jesus' disciples will stay true to His
Word (John 8:31b) as recorded in the Bible.

But others will turn away from the Word to run after
teachings that they like better (2 Timothy 4:3-4),
even teachings that come from devils (1 Timothy 4:1)
masquerading as angels of light (2 Corinthians
11:14).

But we must remain true to the Word if we are to be
saved (James 1:21b).

 

[Bible2]

garry2 posted in message #47:

Jesus said He will keep us from the hour of temptation.

Revelation 3:10 is only addressing the first-century
local church congregation in Philadelphia in the
Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b) regarding
a first-century persecution which came upon the Roman
world. And not all of the first-century local church
congregations in the Roman province of "Asia" were
kept from that persecution, for the faithful church
of Smyrna had to suffer and die in it (Revelation
2:10).

It will be the same way during the coming
tribulation. Some in the Church will be protected
from it even while remaining on the earth (e.g.
Revelation 12:6), while others in the Church will have
to suffer and die in it (e.g. Revelation 20:4).

 

[garry2]

Revelation 3:10 is only addressing the first-century
local church congregation in Philadelphia in the
Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b)

Show scripture showing where this is only adressing the local first century church in philadelphia.


regarding
a first-century persecution which came upon the Roman
world. And not all of the first-century local church
congregations in the Roman province of "Asia" were
kept from that persecution, for the faithful church
of Smyrna had to suffer and die in it (Revelation
2:10).

It will be the same way during the coming
tribulation. Some in the Church will be protected
from it

Yes it will but you said above it only adressed the local first century church - contradicting yourself.

even while remaining on the earth (e.g.
Revelation 12:6),

the woman in rev 12:6 is israeli believers.

while others in the Church will have
to suffer and die in it (e.g. Revelation 20:4).

You are way off. A would be if he could be know all.

 

[garry2]

I have to hand it to you, you deserve a gold medal for knowing it all.

Thinking thinking thinking, it fits in there somewhere.

 

[Bible2]

garry2 posted in message #56:

"Originally Posted by Bible2
Revelation 3:10 is only addressing the first-century
local church congregation in Philadelphia in the
Roman province of 'Asia' (Revelation 1:11b)"

Show scripture showing where this is only adressing
the local first century church in philadelphia.

The scripture was shown (Revelation 1:11b).

Revelation 3:10 wasn't a promise to the Church today,
just as it wasn't a promise to all of the Church even
in the first century, for Revelation 2:10 shows that
the faithful first-century church in Smyrna had to
suffer and die in the same first-century persecution
that the faithful church in Philadelphia was protected
from.

garry2 posted in message #56:

"Originally Posted by Bible2
It will be the same way during the coming
tribulation. Some in the Church will be protected
from it"

Yes it will but you said above it only adressed the
local first century church - contradicting yourself.

There's no contradiction, for the fact that some in
the Church will be protected from the tribulation
while remaining on the earth isn't based on Revelation
3:10's promise to the first-century church in
Philadelphia that it would be protected from a
first-century persecution while remaining on the
earth, but based on Revelation 12:6, which refers to
some in the Church being protected from the
tribulation while remaining on the earth.

garry2 posted in message #56:

the woman in rev 12:6 is israeli believers.

The Bible doesn't say that the woman in Revelation
12:6 is Israeli believers. But even Israeli believers
would be in the Church, for there are no believers
outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-5; 1 Corinthians
12:13).

 

[garry2]

The Bible doesn't say that the woman in Revelation
12:6 is Israeli believers. But even Israeli believers
would be in the Church, for there are no believers
outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-5; 1 Corinthians
12:13).

Not when the church is in heaven at this time.

 

[Bible2]

garry2 posted in message #59:

"Originally Posted by Bible2
The Bible doesn't say that the woman in Revelation
12:6 is Israeli believers. But even Israeli believers
would be in the Church, for there are no believers
outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-5; 1 Corinthians
12:13)."

Not when the church is in heaven at this time.

All the believers who will be on the earth during the
tribulation (e.g. Revelation 13:10, 14:12-13) will
be part of the Church, for there are no believers
outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-5), no matter
whether they're Israeli or not (1 Corinthians 12:13).

So only part of the Church will be in the third heaven
(the place of God's throne) during the tribulation:
that part of the Church which has died and gone to the
third heaven (e.g. Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians
5:8), and the 144,000 part of the Church, the "man
child" part, which will be caught up to the third
heaven right before the 42-month reign of the
Antichrist begins (Revelation 12:5-6, 14:1-5).

The Bible nowhere teaches that the rapture (the
gathering together) of the whole Church will happen
before the tribulation, or that the rapture (the
gathering together) of the whole Church will take the
Church into the third heaven. Instead, the Bible
teaches that the rapture (the gathering together)
of the whole Church will happen after the tribulation
(Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians
2:1-8), and that it will only take the Church into the
first heaven (the sky) to meet Jesus on His way down
to the earth at His second coming (1 Thessalonians
4:15-17).