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Sorry, MK, but this is how society and social construction works.....unless you want to be isolated and not part of any kind of community with no sense of belonging, etc.
The point was made the when cultures change, the only change is outward - that human nature stays the same regardless ("there will be Cain's and there will be Abel's"). A quote was made from Maya Angelou that suggested that she identified with human nature and human values with all their shortcomings (which I don't argue with). Is it your suggestion that she would have identified with what some today consider acceptable and would have called it acceptable herself?
It is confusing to women, who know what they believe individually, but associate with some groups...but each person individually makes it even more confusing for men because there is no general standard or guideline by which they can gauge what to expect or how to "be" a man in today's world.
I'm not guilty of any such thing. I think that the "we's" need to get dropped around now, because if you want to feel guilty, that's fine, but I don't like anyone telling me how I should feel.If we identify as feminists, we are guilty by the association with a movement that harms men. I am one, I am not ashamed to admit it, and I am not proud to say I have contributed to it. And not to excuse it, but we are all party to social sins. We should own up to our part in it.
sheer/see-through "dress" exposing underwears
but they will say that they are empowered and are in control of their own sexuality and have no problem with what they are doing.
I'm trying to figure out how one can even believe that (the guilt by association idea).
There are plenty of corrupt Christians (or people that use that label, anyway). Using that same line of thought---does that make us *all* guilty by association? Even if we have a completely different set of ethics and behaviour? If one is going to use that in one situation--it seems that same reasoning ought to be applied to *all* situations (or else there's a double-standard).
Anyway.....I disagree with painting a whole group (with an acknowledged division of belief systems, even) as "guilty".
I *can* agree with making note of the other set of ethics---realizing that maybe people may cast people wrongfully into the same "box" as others--- and in order to avoid that, making an effort to set oneself apart from the others.
I don't see that as the same thing as being guilty, though.
That is obviously up to you. But I am not all woman or all feminists and I feel no responsibility for what any extremists do at any time.I can't absolve myself from having made a contribution, one way or another, to what we see in society.
That is obviously up to you. But I am not all woman or all feminists and I feel no responsibility for what any extremists do at any time.
Okay....that's great that you are choosing to contribute in a positive way (along with taking responsibility for how your own values/attitudes/beliefs and behaviours affect society)....but that's not what you said earlier.Hetta, with all the sociology courses you've taken, I'd think you'd understand how everyone contributes to social norms, and how that all shifts with cultures and times as the collective social values change. Iow, the social value in the US is total independence from anyone and everyone, without making any impact on anyone or anything on a social level....but if you get millions of people with that value, that becomes the social norm, and yes, YOU and everyone else contributed to it.
I choose to contribute to a new social norm of people taking responsibility for how their own values and attitudes and beliefs and behaviours affect society as a whole, including those who those social norms negatively affect.
Okay....that's great that you are choosing to contribute in a positive way (along with taking responsibility for how your own values/attitudes/beliefs and behaviours affect society....but that's not what you said earlier.
Yes, it is what I said earlier. I have always maintained that we all contribute to all of this. I guess the difference is that I am willing to own up to how I do....and others are not. Hetta, you have mentioned your education on the open married forum.
If we identify as feminists, we are guilty by the association with a movement that harms men. I am one, I am not ashamed to admit it, and I am not proud to say I have contributed to it. And not to excuse it, but we are all party to social sins. We should own up to our part in it.
All feminists are guilty of contributing to the negative impact feminism has on some men. Yes, some men are part of that. I believe those are the men who are willing to work with women to make it more equitable for both genders. However, the movement still harms some men. That can't be denied. So yes, we are all guilty.
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