'Emergency' need for exorcists after surge in people dabbling in Satanism and black magic

[Uncle Tommy]

The fact of demon possession often is used to deflect from the greater social fact of satanic inspiration; which is found in the White House and in the Kremlin and in every seat of power...

Do you care to elaborate?

 

[7trees]

Do you care to elaborate?

In Christianity and in the world's perception of Christianity the demonic is often equated with the sensational. In fact it is in the subtleties of distorted doctrine, sinning saints, social movements with an anti-Christ spirit and so on that the Darkness seeps.

All of the great Christian exorcists from whatever denomination understood that there is an influence upon Man that is literally diabolical, but also intelligent and strategic.

 

[Uncle Tommy]

In Christianity and in the world's perception of Christianity the demonic is often equated with the sensational. In fact it is in the subtleties of distorted doctrine, sinning saints, social movements with an anti-Christ spirit and so on that the Darkness seeps.

All of the great Christian exorcists from whatever denomination understood that there is an influence upon Man that is literally diabolical, but also intelligent and strategic.

Actually I was referring to the comment stating that every seat of power is demonically inspired.

 

[7trees]

Actually I was referring to the comment stating that every seat of power is demonically inspired.

Doesn't this cover it- not to mention say the attacks upon the bible by President Obama- or the closing of Christian schools by the last British Prime Minister?

 

[Dave-W]

And when they need help, even though they're anti-Catholic, they'll STILL call the Catholic priests/exorcists. Even the Protestants recognize the Catholics are the real experts in this area...

Um - no they do not. Most protestants involved in the deliverance ministry are very suspect of the efficacy of the catholic methodology. As am I.

You cannot teach a person to function in Discerning of Spirits any more than you can teach them to perform miracles.

 

[Dave-W]

Not competition. Reality. Catholic exorcists have merely had more "practice." They literally wrote the book on exorcism...

For the catholic method. That is not how the likes of the protestant pioneers in that ministry did it. Guys like Lester Sumrall, Don Basham, Derek Prince, and more recently Brad Long and Doug McMurry.

 

[Dave-W]

No, occult is the right word since the practice of magic is mysticism, enlightenment with regards to hidden knowledge and power.

Occult is only the right word for the devilish side of the issue.

God's divine power is NOT "occult" (hidden) since it is all revealed in the Bible.

 

[Dave-W]

I was using the standard definition of occult, which I quoted from wikipedia. I just checked some dictionaries as well, and they agree with that definition, and God is definitely part of the "occult" as the word is defined today.

That definition is not one any bible believing christian should use since it is from the secular world which cannot distinguish between the GOD of Heaven and the god of this world. (satan)

 

[tatteredsoul]

Supernatural is a much better word; occult has a lot of negative connotation in today's world......

Gnostic would be a better word.

Occult means "hidden," and God all but BEGS us to take/listen to His revelations.

At one point, the gnostics considered everyone else who didn't know the deeper meanings of spirituality and life "agnostic" - without knowledge. That included many Christians, Hebrews and other religions.

 

[Dave-W]

Gnostic would be a better word.

Not really. Gnostics had their own theology based in Greek dualism; and most cult and occult groups do not share that theology. And it really had little to do with "magic."

 

[tatteredsoul]

I know a lot of Christians don't believe in demons, despite the fact Christ said to send them out (inherently acknowledging their existence.) So, this question may be inappropriate for those who don't believe in demons, possession, principalities and archons.

For those that do, do we realize how terrifyingly hard it is - how terrifyingly dangerous it is - to cast out a spirit from a body? Do we understand that people die trying to perform exorcisms, or become possessed themselves? Do we realize spiritual entities are intelligent enough to drive the possessed body into convulsions, foaming and other "obvious" possession signs - that someone could be deceptively possessed?

It isn't like the movies, and The Exorcist is about as close as it gets (but, is still grossly underexaggerated.)

Demons have been wandering spirits for thousands of years. They know humans. They know subtlety. They learn. It isn't like taking out cancer; demons are highly intelligent entities with knowledge of this world, and the other world. It isn't child''s business.

You can't teach exorcisms, because you can't teach faith. Sure, you can ward your areas, and stock your hips with crucifixes, silver, iron, and holy water. But, if you have no faith, or if you have less faith than the threshold needed to contain and control these entities, you put yourself and everyone else in danger.

Often times, exorcisms aren't actual removals, as these entities attach themselves to physical objects to tether to the physical world - with the hope of possession again. In addition, telling people to move doesn't do anything when dealing with spirits - unless you know the ward to contain the spirits.

This knowledge can be taught, but the execution and power thereof CANNOT.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Not really. Gnostics had their own theology based in Greek dualism; and most cult and occult groups do not share that theology. And it really had little to do with "magic."

As per the semantics of the wordplay from the first page:

Gnosis means knowledge. Some first century Christians were gnostic, and believed they had the "true" knowledge of God. The magic, encantations and occultism within gnosticism came later.

Occult has no place as a descriptor of God at all, because He was never hidden, nor was His plan, message, or judgments.

Occultism deals mostly with sacred math and geometry (algebra, differential manifolds, topology, number theory, analysis, etc.) This math is used in conjunction with celestial mechanics to invoke divination and real magick. For example, the popular game Sudoku is based on a very common "sacred" math object known as "magic squares." They have been around for thousands of years, and the solution to "magic squares" is a matter of number theory applications.

Gnosis would be a better word to use other than occult, but gnosis is still a misnomer - or, rather, incomplete in description.

 

[Dave-W]

or those that do, do we realize how terrifyingly hard it is - how terrifyingly dangerous it is - to cast out a spirit from a body? Do we understand that people die trying to perform exorcisms, or become possessed themselves? Do we realize spiritual entities are intelligent enough to drive the possessed body into convulsions, foaming and other "obvious" possession signs - that someone could be deceptively possessed?

Yes yes and yes.

But ONLY if one does not have the equipping of the gift of Discerning of Spirits and is not fully confident of their authority in Christ. (and in some cases prayed and fasted prior to the deliverance)

It is not that hard if you understand who and what the demon is and who you are in Christ.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Yes yes and yes.

But ONLY if one does not have the equipping of the gift of Discerning of Spirits and is not fully confident of their authority in Christ. (and in some cases prayed and fasted prior to the deliverance)

It is not that hard if you understand who and what the demon is and who you are in Christ.

Right.

On one hand, Christ told us to cast out demons with as much "ease" as He would tell someone to eat if they are hungry.

On the other hand, Christ also told us to fast (not if, but WHEN you fast...,) pray without ceasing, stay holy, pure and strong in faith.

I think people get the wrong idea talking about exorcism because they believe it is like TV, or movies. It is serious business, and you can't teach exorcism just like you can't teach faith and/or love.

If you don't have the practice of a saint, and the faith and strength, casting out devils can likely invite even more devils, instead of removing the one.

Ironically, for those who DO understand who they are in Christ, and DO understand the spiritual world, exorcism is not considered contracted business. Those people are moved by the Providence of God, not by theological science, or dogmatic headship.

 

[Daryl Gleason]

Yes yes and yes.

But ONLY if one does not have the equipping of the gift of Discerning of Spirits and is not fully confident of their authority in Christ. (and in some cases prayed and fasted prior to the deliverance)

It is not that hard if you understand who and what the demon is and who you are in Christ.

To this I would add for clarification that it is exceptionally hard (if not impossible) and certainly dangerous if not done in the holy spirit and with faith.

With these, it can still be tricky, unless one does exactly what one sees the Father doing.

In Christ,
Daryl

 

[JCFantasy23]

I hope none of this is an increase because of the Exorcist tv show coming out and more people getting things into their heads.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-exorcists-as-increasing-number-of-people-da/

It seems the spiritual war continues to intensify.

Spiritual Warfare has been and is the least talked about subject in the evangelical sphere of Christianity. its like taboo for some reason. it might be the western dualistic worldview of dividing everything between either science or spiritual, with no in between.

 

[EmmaCat]

Back to the OP, when anyone here claimed possession and acted oddly, their families got them to a hospital where they were found to have some mental or emotional problems/disorders and they were given a lot of therapy and put on meds.

Maybe such possession might be imagination brought on by mental issues. Sometimes the brain doesn't work right and needs a little help.