"Embedded Age" Requires Fake Fossils

[JasonClark]

You are free to take part in any discussion you like but it makes sense to use the correct terminology.

You are asking him to give up most of his weapons, he won't do it.

 

[Astrophile]

We have some experts proposing an alternative explanation for what we observe:

New Theory: The Universe Isn't Expanding, It's Just Gaining Mass

“One cosmologist is proposing that the universe isn't actually expanding, as the standard theory goes. Instead, the redshift effects astronomers see could mean that everything is just gaining more mass …”

Ref.: http://www.popsci.com/science/artic...universe-isnt-expanding-its-just-gaining-mass

In post 885 you cited 'Galaxy Redshifts Reconsidered' by Odenwald and Fienberg http://cecilia.physics.indiana.edu/life/redshift.html to support your case; as I explained, these authors accept the expansion of the universe and insist on the necessity of a general relativistic treatment of the expansion. Now you are citing Wetterich's hypothesis, which denies the expansion of the universe and proposes that the cosmic redshifts are due to everything gaining mass. The phrase 'clutching at straws' comes to mind.

Also, as I have already pointed out, the observed cosmic microwave background provides evidence for an early high-temperature state of the universe, and the observed cosmic abundances of deuterium, helium-3, helium-4 and lithium are explained by a brief episode of nuclear fusion during the Big Bang. These observations need an explanation in any cosmological theory, so can you tell us how Wetterich's hypothesis explains them?

 

[Astrophile]

Fair enough.
We also know that empty space cannot stretch or expand, so all they did was exchange one absurdity for another. They then had to create a new absurdity called dark-energy in order to make sense of the absurdities they already created, and the absurdities just keep piling on.

It is similar to creating a new lie in order to cover up a former lie.

As I have already pointed out (post 955 and post 1122), the authors of this paper accept the expansion of the universe; what they are doing is pointing out the errors in the popular treatment of the expansion, and insisting on the necessity of a general relativistic treatment of it.

If you can provide either a proper refutation of the hypothesis of dark energy or an alternative scientific hypothesis that can explain the evidence that has led scientists to accept the existence of dark energy, then I shall accept what you say.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

Argumentum ad populum. Yawn.

Will you respond with a yawn when Jesus Christ returns to this planet with ten thousands angels?

New International Version
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. [1 Thessalonians 4:16]

 

[Nic Samojluk]

I continue to point out your error.

Wow! Another red herring. I am impressed.

 

[bhsmte]

Will you respond with a yawn when Jesus Christ returns to this planet with ten thousands angels?

New International Version
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. [1 Thessalonians 4:16]

Do you actually think a statement like this works on those who are non believers?

 

[Nic Samojluk]

You gave him a title that many historians and scholars will disagree with. There probably was a Jesus, though there are more and more serious historians that are beginning to doubt even this claim.

I have chosen my historians with great care. Nevertheless, suppose I am wrong. What is the most I can loose when my life is over? How about you?

 

[bhsmte]

I have chosen my historians with great care. Nevertheless, suppose I am wrong. What is the most I can loose when my life is over? How about you?

To some, it isn't about what one loses when life is over, it is about how honest they were with themselves while they lived.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

We know there was no Noah's Ark, that story was refuted even before the theory of evolution came along.

Will you still believe your sources when fire from heaven follows the Second Coming of Jesus Christ?

New International Version
People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.[Luke 17:30]

New International Version
They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. [Revelation 20:9]

 

[bhsmte]

Will you still believe your sources when fire from heaven follows the Second Coming of Jesus Christ?

New International Version
People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.[Luke 17:30]

New International Version
They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. [Revelation 20:9]

Manufactured fear may work for some, but not all.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

Assuming there was such a person as Jesus Christ.

Who do you think Saint Paul met on the Damascus Rd? Would he have made a 180 degrees turn had he met a nobody? He fell from his horse. How do you explain this. He was blinded by the light.

New International Version
As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. [Acts 9:3-6]

New International Version
My companions led me by the hand into Damascus, because the brilliance of the light had blinded me.[ Acts 22:11]

 

[RickG]

Pardon the interruption, but I have a question pertaining to the topic of the thread. Is there embedded age in the fossil record, and if so, how would embedded age be determined?

 

[Nic Samojluk]

So you are saying that actually instead of trying to see more, when your views are challenged in the slightest way you just become more entrenched.

What I am saying is that my evidence is stronger every time I compare with yours.

Let me relate an experience we had some years ago.

One day we were coming back from Mexico, but our old Oldsmobile would not start. After half an hour of failed attempts the car started, and I told my wife that we would not stop until we got home, but when we were close to Temecula, I noticed that the gas gauge was almost at empty. We stopped for gas, but the car refused to start.

We kept trying on and off for four hours. The tow truck mechanic inspected the engine and his verdict was that the timing was broken and the car would never start. We were ready to call a taxi and find a motel to spend the night. My wife said: “Let me try one more time.” She said, “In the name of the Lord” and turned the ignition. The car started.

We got home and, and the next morning I tried to start the car to no avail. I had the car towed to the mechanic, who after looking at the engine reported to me that the timing was broken and that there was no way to get it started.

Explain this to me with words I can understand! I can cite additional experiences that I had in the past. My dad had similar guidance from above.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

Maybe your confusion of evolution with abiogenesis is your fault and not ours?

I am not confusing anything. Your pet theory leads me to a cul-de-sac which forces me to make a u-turn. I am willing to bet that science will never provide a plausible explanation for the origin of life, the fine tuning of the universe, or the intricate DNA design.

 

[bhsmte]

I am not confusing anything. Your pet theory leads me to a cul-de-sac which forces me to make a u-turn. I am willing to bet that science will never provide a plausible explanation for the origin of life, the fine tuning of the universe, or the intricate DNA design.

I wouldn't bet on it.

You see, science has been able to explain a lot of things, people thought science would never be able to.

So, if you are banking on no further discoveries, good luck.

 

[JasonClark]

Will you respond with a yawn when Jesus Christ returns to this planet with ten thousands angels?

Will you respond with a yawn when Yikataa returns to gather his flock?

 

[JasonClark]

I have chosen my historians with great care. Nevertheless, suppose I am wrong. What is the most I can loose when my life is over? How about you?

We will all lose the one and only thing we have, life, because there is nothing else.

 

[Split Rock]

What I am saying is that my evidence is stronger every time I compare with yours.

Let me relate an experience we had some years ago.

One day we were coming back from Mexico, but our old Oldsmobile would not start. After half an hour of failed attempts the car started, and I told my wife that we would not stop until we got home, but when we were close to Temecula, I noticed that the gas gauge was almost at empty. We stopped for gas, but the car refused to start.

We kept trying on and off for four hours. The tow truck mechanic inspected the engine and his verdict was that the timing was broken and the car would never start. We were ready to call a taxi and find a motel to spend the night. My wife said: “Let me try one more time.” She said, “In the name of the Lord” and turned the ignition. The car started.

We got home and, and the next morning I tried to start the car to no avail. I had the car towed to the mechanic, who after looking at the engine reported to me that the timing was broken and that there was no way to get it started.

Explain this to me with words I can understand! I can cite additional experiences that I had in the past. My dad had similar guidance from above.

So, when Christians in the Middle East are being killed or driven from their homes by the Islamic State, and praying to God for help, he ignores them. When your wife prays to God to make your Oldsmobile start, he grants her prayer. Is that what you are saying?

 

[Doveaman]

What "they" have done is accommodate the evidence.

What evidence?

Empty space-expansion is assumed, and dark-energy is assumed because empty space-expansion is assumed. The only evidence you have is redshift, which can be explained without the need for empty space-expansion or dark-energy.

http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0401420

Until you have a better accommodation of the evidence that stands up to mathematical and observational consistency with the evidence, the current understanding will stand.

The current understanding will stand because it's an ideology, not science.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

You expect me to take that seriously?

Did you ever read Daniel 2 or Daniel 7 and compare this to the history of the world major empires? How could a mere man predict the number and characteristics of those empires and the division of the fourth one into ten kingdoms?