Embedded Age Challenge

[AV1611VET]

Come on AV, you're not actually going to let this one drop off the first page are you?

Give me something worth responding to, and I'll respond to it.

 

[Gracchus]

Give me something worth responding to, and I'll respond to it.

But not in any meaningful way. You are too deep in de longest river in Africa.

 

[Nostromo]

Give me something worth responding to, and I'll respond to it.

As a Bible literalist you don't find anything interesting about God being able to change the meaning of words?

 

[Tiberius]

Okay, here's a question for you, AV...

You say Adam didn't have a belly button.

Why didn't he have one? In post 35 you say it is because they were not made with scars.

So, just to make sure I get this straight...

if God makes something with embedded age, does it bear any scars representing things that are part of that embedded age? (Such as Adam's naval being a scar of events that happened in his childhood, which is why he doesn't have a belly button.)

 

[sandwiches]

Okay, here's a question for you, AV...

You say Adam didn't have a belly button.

Why didn't he have one? In post 35 you say it is because they were not made with scars.

So, just to make sure I get this straight...

if God makes something with embedded age, does it bear any scars representing things that are part of that embedded age? (Such as Adam's naval being a scar of events that happened in his childhood, which is why he doesn't have a belly button.)

I think we had this discussion with AV about a year ago. He was trying to convince us how things like the Grand Canyon or belly buttons are 'bad' and thus signs of the Fall or some such.

 

[MoonLancer]

I think we had this discussion with AV about a year ago. He was trying to convince us how things like the Grand Canyon or belly buttons are 'bad' and thus signs of the Fall or some such.

I still cant summon hot daemon ladies out of my belly button, So i call shenanigans.

 

[sandwiches]

Does that mean i can summon hot daemon ladies out of my belly button?

If only...

I think it's more of how AV categorizes certain signs or change as either 'good' or 'bad.' (e.g. A volcano is 'bad' because it burns things.)

 

[Tiberius]

Then why does the Earth bear the scars of meteorite impacts?

 

[AV1611VET]

Then why does the Earth bear the scars of meteorite impacts?

Earth went through a period of being inhabited by a race of human-angel hybrids; and some families even consisted of hybrid children having human mothers and angel fathers.

Wars and disputes between super-powerful empires could have been on a cosmic scale, producing massive scarring on the earth's surface, that even the Flood didn't erase.

I'm with the Gap theorists on this one.

 

[Nostromo]

I was ready to give you the benefit of the doubt when these guys said your approach was purely narcissistic. I was wrong.

You would rather God existed as a handyman to fix the holes in your ideas, and as a result smear the image of the Bible and God Himself, than admit that you might be wrong.

If the Christian God is real, I would bet my life and my soul on you being in deeper trouble than any of these unbelievers. You're going to disregard everything I say because I'm not a believer myself, but I think you need to take a step back and look at what you're doing.

 

[Tomatoman]

Earth went through a period of being inhabited by a race of human-angel hybrids; and some families even consisted of hybrid children having human mothers and angel fathers.

Wars and disputes between super-powerful empires could have been on a cosmic scale, producing massive scarring on the earth's surface, that even the Flood didn't erase.

I'm with the Gap theorists on this one.

Do they actually teach this crap in your church or is it your own?

 

[AV1611VET]

I was ready to give you the benefit of the doubt when these guys said your approach was purely narcissistic. I was wrong.

You would rather God existed as a handyman to fix the holes in your ideas, and as a result smear the image of the Bible and God Himself, than admit that you might be wrong.

If the Christian God is real, I would bet my life and my soul on you being in deeper trouble than any of these unbelievers. You're going to disregard everything I say because I'm not a believer myself, but I think you need to take a step back and look at what you're doing.

Interesting reply, since I gave you basic doctrine according to the Gap theory.

Gap creationism (also known as Ruin-Restoration creationism, Restoration creationism, or "The Gap Theory"), is a form of Old Earth creationism that posits that the six-day creation, as described in the Book of Genesis, involved literal 24-hour days, but that there was a gap of time between two distinct creations in the first and the second verses of Genesis, explaining many scientific observations, including the age of the earth. In this it differs differs from Day-Age creationism, which posits that the 'days' of creation were much longer periods (of thousands or millions of years), and from Young Earth creationism, which although it agrees concerning the six literal 24-hour days of creation, does not posit any gap of time.

Gap creationists believe that science has proven beyond reasonable doubt that the Earth is far older than can be accounted for by, for instance, adding up the ages of Biblical patriarchs and comparing it with secular historical data, as James Ussher famously attempted in the 17th century when he developed the Ussher chronology.


To maintain that the Genesis creation account is inerrant in matters of scientific fact, Gap creationists suppose that certain facts about the past and the age of the Earth have been omitted from the Genesis account; specifically that there was a gap of time in the Biblical account that lasted an unknown number of years between a first creation in Genesis 1:1 and a second creation in Genesis 1:2-31. By positing such an event, various observations in a wide range of fields, including the age of the Earth, the age of the universe, dinosaurs, fossils, ice cores, and geological formations are allowed by adherents to to have occurred as outlined by science without contradicting their literal belief in Genesis.

SOURCE

I even told you it was Gap theory -- a well-established theory.

From the same source:

The gap theory has become the standard interpretation throughout hyper-orthodoxy, appearing in an endless stream of books, booklets, Bible studies, and periodical articles. In fact, it has become so sacrosanct with some that to question it is equivalent to tampering with Sacred Scripture or to manifest modernistic leanings.

 

[Cabal]

Do they actually teach this crap in your church or is it your own?

To be fair, the Nephilim concept isn't that crazy and is pretty much a direct lift from Genesis.

The cosmic wars stuff - not so much. "Literalism" eh?

 

[Cabal]

SOURCE
I even told you it was Gap theory -- a well-established theory.

Interesting that some will resort to Bible of the gaps as well as God of the gaps.

 

[AV1611VET]

The cosmic wars stuff - not so much.

Try again.

 

[Cabal]

Try again.

The only vaguely justifiable "cosmic war" one could extract from a literal reading of the Bible is the one where Satan was cast out of heaven. Which presumably had already happened pre-Nephilim in Noah's time, as Satan was already hacked off at God by the time of Eden.

A literal reading of Genesis allows for Nephilim arising from humans and angels getting jiggy, but it does not justify a cosmic war involving them. Sorry to break it to you

 

[AV1611VET]

The only vaguely justifiable "cosmic war" one could extract from a literal reading of the Bible is the one where Satan was cast out of heaven. Which presumably had already happened pre-Nephilim in Noah's time, as Satan was already hacked off at God by the time of Eden.

A literal reading of Genesis allows for Nephilim arising from humans and angels getting jiggy, but it does not justify a cosmic war involving them. Sorry to break it to you

I wasn't debating the virtues of Gap theory, I was pointing out that I wasn't making this stuff up.

Remember someone telling me this:

If the Christian God is real, I would bet my life and my soul on you being in deeper trouble than any of these unbelievers.

If I'm in trouble, so are Gap theorists.

You may recall, we had a knowledgeable Gap theorist that you guys laughed and ridiculed.

Now you guys are [ahem] acting [/ahem] like I'm making this stuff up?

 

[dawiyd]

Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler and Hussein didn't send their sons to die for your liberty.

People didn't have liberty before Jesus?

 

[Cabal]

I wasn't debating the virtues of Gap theory, I was pointing out that I wasn't making this stuff up.

Neither was I - I was pointing out that some of it is justifiable from a literalist stance, the rest is not.

Remember someone telling me this:

If I'm in trouble, so are Gap theorists.

So? They're probably just as wrong.

You may recall, we had a knowledgeable Gap theorist that you guys laughed and ridiculed.

Nope, can't say I do - probably didn't come packing very good arguments.

Now you guys are [ahem] acting [/ahem] like I'm making this stuff up?

What's your point, AV? No, you're not the first theist to pull theological justifications ex recto to justify your personal interpretations. This is not exactly news.

 

[Tomatoman]

Now you guys are [ahem] acting [/ahem] like I'm making this stuff up?

I'm not acting, I genuinely didn't know all that angel stuff was in genesis. I don't remember them mentioning it in school, but then the Church of England concentrates on the New testament. The last time I tried to wade through genesis (about 6 months ago) I got bored because it was so silly and gave up. One really wonders how any moderately intelligent adult can take it seriously.