Embedded Age Challenge

[Tiberius]

The challenge is to explain the use of embedded age.

What is possible in a universe with embedded age that is not possible in a universe without embedded age?

And if there is embedded age, why was God in such a rush? I mean, if having a universe with the appearance of great age were advantageous, why didn't God just wait those few billions of years?

 

[AV1611VET]

The challenge is to explain the use of embedded age.

Since embedded age is maturity without history, the best answer to this is that you have maturity without history.

Maturity with history is Omphalism.

Planets, moons and stars all appearing fully mature, but not by the process of accretion or accelerated accretion.

What is possible in a universe with embedded age that is not possible in a universe without embedded age?

The lack of a passage of time.

And if there is embedded age, why was God in such a rush?

There was no rush.

In reality, He took six days on purpose, so as to give us a template for the workweek.

He could have just spoken the entire universe into existence, fully up and running, in less than a picosecond -- but, as stated, He purposely took His time.

I mean, if having a universe with the appearance of great age were advantageous, why didn't God just wait those few billions of years?

Occam's Razor?

 

[hillard]

Creationists are so used to being conned that they accept their God as being the biggest con man of them all,
they think that only someone who really loved creationists would con creationists.

 

[Nostromo]

In reality, He took six days on purpose, so as to give us a template for the workweek.

Since we didn't actually see any of the creation and only read whatever we were told about it, and Him being the ultimate authority, it doesn't make a lot of sense that he did it to set an example.

 

[MoonLancer]

Since embedded age is maturity without history, the best answer to this is that you have maturity without history.

Maturity with history is Omphalism.

You cant escape the history all around us. You cant have maturity without history. Thus EA is Omphalos

Occam's Razor?

lol. May want to reread what occams razor is.

 

[AV1611VET]

Since we didn't actually see any of the creation and only read whatever we were told about it, and Him being the ultimate authority, it doesn't make a lot of sense that he did it to set an example.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[AV1611VET]

You cant escape the history all around us.

No, but Adam could.

In fact, he had no history to escape from.

 

[hillard]

No, but Adam could.

In fact, he had no history to escape from.

So you honestly think that Adam was a real person? you write as if you do so we can only assume that you have swallowed the OT hook line and sinker, lock stock and barrel.
Why on earth would you need to do that?

 

[AV1611VET]

So you honestly think that Adam was a real person?

Indeed, I do.

you write as if you do so we can only assume that you have swallowed the OT hook line and sinker, lock stock and barrel.

Indeed I have.

Why on earth would you need to do that?

Jesus and the NT writers took Adam literally, and so do I.

 

[hillard]

Indeed, I do.

Indeed I have.

Jesus and the NT writers took Adam literally, and so do I.

Do you think the authorities have you under surveillance Av? or are there lots like you where you live?

 

[Nostromo]

Romans..

Come on AV, arguing only by quotes is dull.

My point is that setting an example makes no sense. For a start, He's God, He doesn't need to set an example, He could just dictate the rules.

God's existence is also quite different from ours. Setting an example may be useful when your someone else's line manager, but not as a being to whom labour and rest are effectively meaningless. "Hey, I'm one of the guys, I worked too you know!", doesn't sound too genuine when you can just effortlessly speak things into existence.

There's also the fact that God doesn't lead by example at many times during the Biblical account.
What happened to "Thou shalt not kill"?

 

[hillard]

Come on AV, arguing only by quotes is dull.

Please cut him some slack, he has nothing to put forward except quotes so what do you want him to do?
make it up as he goes along?

 

[AV1611VET]

Come on AV, arguing only by quotes is dull.

Not exactly --

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

My point is that setting an example makes no sense. For a start, He's God, He doesn't need to set an example, He could just dictate the rules.

That would make Him a dictator -- which He is not.

God's existence is also quite different from ours. Setting an example may be useful when your someone else's line manager, but not as a being to whom labour and rest are effectively meaningless. "Hey, I'm one of the guys, I worked too you know!", doesn't sound too genuine when you can just effortlessly speak things into existence.

I trust you know the difference between a supervisor and a working supervisor?

Which do you prefer?

There's also the fact that God doesn't lead by example at many times during the Biblical account.

I disagree.

Luke 10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

What happened to "Thou shalt not kill"?

Nothing -- it's still there, and it still applies.

 

[AV1611VET]

Please cut him some slack, he has nothing to put forward except quotes so what do you want him to do?
make it up as he goes along?

This remark says it all.

Whether we quote Scripture, or whether we make suppositions, we're still going about it the wrong way -- (in you guys' eyes).

You guys are good at trying to put us into a catch 22 situation.

 

[Nostromo]

Not exactly --

Really, I find it dull

That would make Him a dictator -- which He is not.

From, of course, Wikipedia:-
"A dictator is a ruler (e.g. absolutist or autocratic) who assumes sole and absolute power (sometimes but not always with military control) but without hereditary ascension such as an absolute monarch."

That sounds about right. He's certainly not the elected head of a liberal democracy.

I trust you know the difference between a supervisor and a working supervisor?

Which do you prefer?

I don't really have a preference. Obviously I like a supervisor to know the role they're supervising, but that's not really a problem the case of the omniscient. That's the point I was making, his experience on the job is about as far removed from ours as one can imagine.

I disagree.
Nothing -- it's still there, and it still applies.

Just not to God?

 

[Tiberius]

Since embedded age is maturity without history, the best answer to this is that you have maturity without history.

Maturity with history is Omphalism.

Planets, moons and stars all appearing fully mature, but not by the process of accretion or accelerated accretion.

And yet every piece of actual evidence we have indicates that such a history did occur.

Planets themselves indicate that they formed by a process of accretion over many millions of years.

So tell me, AV, if God makes the planets so they look like they gradualled accreted over many millions of years when they actually didn't, what does that make God?

The lack of a passage of time.

So why did God want a lack of passage of time?

There was no rush.

In reality, He took six days on purpose, so as to give us a template for the workweek.

He could have just spoken the entire universe into existence, fully up and running, in less than a picosecond -- but, as stated, He purposely took His time.

Why did he decide that creating things over six days (metaphoirical days or otherwise) was the best way? I mean, why not just speak in a great big booming voice for all to hear?

And did Adam and Eve really need to work in the garden of Eden? After all, why the need for a work week there? or did God know that Adam and Eve would eat from the tree and thus would require such a work week? But surely, if God knew Adam and Eve were going to disobey him, and it was so important to God that such disobedience not occur, why did he make the tree so easily accessible? I mean, he's God, for crying out loud. Surely he has better security measures than the freaking honour system!

Occam's Razor?

Occam's razor would tend to eliminate your embedded age idea from the whole thing.

 

[AV1611VET]

So why did God want a lack of passage of time?

I feel I've answered your challenge, Tiberius -- hopefully to your satisfaction.

 

[hillard]

I feel I've answered your challenge, Tiberius -- hopefully to your satisfaction.

Feelings and hope are all you have Av, along with a world of denial a lack of knowledge and an idea that it's too late to change, well it's never too late to change because God is about love not words.

Creationism is about words, ignorance and money, in that order.

 

[driewerf]

That would make Him a dictator -- which He is not.

You cheer for Stalin or you end in the Gulag.
You bow for Pol Pot or you end in the Killing Fields.
You "Sieg heil" for Hitler or you find your end in Auschwitz.
You obey Saddam Houssein or you'l be deported to Abu Graib.

You accept Jesus as your Savour or you'll go to Hell.

 

[driewerf]

Feelings and hope are all you have Av, along with a world of denial a lack of knowledge and an idea that it's too late to change, well it's never too late to change because God is about love not words.

Creationism is about words, ignorance and money, in that order.

I would have put money in the first place.