"Embedded Age" and Why it's Wrong

[lasthero]

All our fossils and rocks do not come with age tags.

Okay, why do you guys keep saying this? It's such a stupid point.

Yes, fossils don't come with age tags. And babies don't come with tags that tell you who the father is. And murderers don't often leave notes telling you that they killed their victims and how they pulled it off.

You can figure out about things in the past. You do it all the time. We all do.

Any born again Christians I know plainly realize that the earth, plants, animals, sun, moon and Adam were all created mature and ready for life in 6 literal days.

Well, that's not true. Unless you want to argue that people like Diz and OllieFranz aren't born-again Christians. I'm quite certain they would say they are.

That would require creating something with apparent age. Adam could walk, talk and tend the garden. Even name the animals. No parents taught him those things. They were "embedded".

Did Adam have a bellybutton? Did he have fingerprints? Did he have scars from accidents and scratches he never really had? Because these and other things are things that a person would have if they lived for however long you think Adam was created to be like, but there's no practical reason for Adam to have these features if he was created, unless the person who created him really wanted to give the impression that he'd lived years he actually hadn't.

Also, I seem to recall you admitting that Adam isn't a very good comparison for the Earth. Why are you using him again?

 

[EternalDragon]

Okay, why do you guys keep saying this? It's such a stupid point.

Yes, fossils don't come with age tags. And babies don't come with tags that tell you who the father is. And murderers don't often leave notes telling you that they killed their victims and how they pulled it off.

You can figure out about things in the past. You do it all the time. We all do.

The earth isn't a living baby the reproduces. The earth isn't a fossil nor a crime scene (which by the way gets harder and harder to decipher the older it is.)

Well, that's not true. Unless you want to argue that people like Diz and OllieFranz aren't born-again Christians. I'm quite certain they would say they are.

Who are they?

Did Adam have a bellybutton? Did he have fingerprints? Did he have scars from accidents and scratches he never really had? Because these and other things are things that a person would have if they lived for however long you think Adam was created to be like, but there's no practical reason for Adam to have these features if he was created, unless the person who created him really wanted to give the impression that he'd lived years he actually hadn't.

Also, I seem to recall you admitting that Adam isn't a very good comparison for the Earth. Why are you using him again?

To show a pattern of behavior/creation.

 

[lasthero]

The earth isn't a living baby the reproduces. The earth isn't a fossil nor a crime scene (which by the way gets harder and harder to decipher the older it is.)

So? They're both in the past. That's basically what the argument boils down to - you weren't there, so you can't know. Well, sorry, you can know, even if you were there. And yes, the farther back an event is, the harder it is to know about it. So what? Hard isn't impossible. It's just hard.

Who are they?

You've been here just as long as I have, you know who they are.

To show a pattern of behavior/creation.

But the pattern doesn't fit, and if you'd answer the question I posed instead of ignoring it, that would show.

You state that Adam was built with certain features of age that he needed to function, but not all indicators of age are required for human beings to functions. Human beings - especially Adam - don't need fingerprints. They develop in the womb. Human beings don't need belly buttons. They form when the umbilical cord is cut. Human beings don't need scars from accidents. Human beings don't need worn down teeth. Human beings don't need worn fingernails.

These and other things are the result of human beings aging naturally, but they're not required for a human being to live, they're just the result of living. So if we compared a human that was made instantly to one who lived naturally, we would expect the latter to have these features while the former didn't, unless the person who created the former gave him all these things not because he needed them for function, but because he wanted whoever was examining the former to get the impression that the being had lived and done things he hadn't. A deception.

By that same token, we see features on the Earth and the universe that indicate an old age, but aren't required for life to survive in the least.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

All our fossils and rocks do not come with age tags. The ages are assumed. Also, all the fossils, coal and oil were formed from being buried by the recent flood. (burial, heat and pressure).

There was a question of where in Genesis it states the earth is only around 6000 years old. We have a complete genealogy in Genesis from Adam to Noah and then from Noah to Jesus. We can trace Jesus right back to Adam and it is around 6000 years.

And the "embedded age" isn't exclusively an AV idea. Any born again Christians I know plainly realize that the earth, plants, animals, sun, moon and Adam were all created mature and ready for life in 6 literal days. That would require creating something with apparent age. Adam could walk, talk and tend the garden. Even name the animals. No parents taught him those things. They were "embedded".

Its not just a level of maturity that implies an age. Its also records of events in the past that didn't have to occur. Stars have trails through great intersteller clouds that would have taken a million years to form. Supernova show up that light has to have travelled for hundreds of thousands of years before arriving. Why make a picture in created light on the way of an exploding star, if that star is never going to be real?

 

[lasthero]

Its not just a level of maturity that implies an age. Its also records of events in the past that didn't have to occur. Stars have trails through great intersteller clouds that would have taken a million years to form. Supernova show up that light has to have travelled for hundreds of thousands of years before arriving. Why make a picture in created light on the way of an exploding star, if that star is never going to be real?

Exactly.

I mean, look at this.

Someone more versed in astronomy than I can correct me, but this is a supernova remnant. It's just the remains of a supernova. It's spread out of millions of light year. In a 6,000 year universe, the only way to get it that far out would be create it that - basically make a supernova remnant from a supernova that never happened, from a star that never existed.

Even if you accept that doing this isn't deceptive - and it really is - what would be the point?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Exactly.

I mean, look at this.

Someone more versed in astronomy than I can correct me, but this is a supernova remnant. It's just the remains of a supernova. It's spread out of millions of light year. In a 6,000 year universe, the only way to get it that far out would be create it that - basically make a supernova remnant from a supernova that never happened, from a star that never existed.

Even if you accept that doing this isn't deceptive - and it really is - what would be the point?

It means, of course, that even if all things were not created until 6000 years ago, a whole scenario for the existence of the whole grand universe was dreamed up in the mind of God anyway, just so the simulation of the past would be perfect.

Since we are all a simulation in the mind of God anyway, we might as well call that simulation actually as real as our current simulation.

 

[AV1611VET]

Even if you accept that doing this isn't deceptive - and it really is - what would be the point?

These nebula serve as a testimony of stars that were destroyed during the insurrection, when ⅓ of the angels rebelled and chose to follow Lucifer.

God destroyed their dwelling places (stars) and eventually consigned many of them to chains of darkness.

Prior to the Fall, the universe was pervaded by Shekinah energy.

After the Fall, God withdrew this energy and left "quantum foam" in its place, where the speed of light is much slower.

Imagine you are a "friendly angel," but considering moving over to Satan's side.

You see your "cohorts'" houses (nebula), burned-out shells that used to be their homes; and decide against it.

Or look at it this way:

You consider rebelling against your king.

He takes you on a tour around his empire, showing you smouldering homes of those who rebelled in the past.

 

[lasthero]

These nebula serve as a testimony of stars that were destroyed during the insurrection, when ⅓ of the angels rebelled and chose to follow Lucifer.

God destroyed their dwelling places (stars) and eventually consigned many of them to chains of darkness.

Prior to the Fall, the universe was pervaded by Shekinah energy.

After the Fall, God withdrew this energy and left "quantum foam" in its place, where the speed of light is much slower.

Imagine you are a "friendly angel," but considering moving over to Satan's side.

You see your "cohorts'" houses (nebula), burned-out shells that used to be their homes; and decide against it.

Or look at it this way:

You consider rebelling against your king.

He takes you on a tour around his empire, showing you smouldering homes of those who rebelled in the past.

And then you slayed the Jabberwocky and saved Narnia. Whatever.

 

[AV1611VET]

And then you slayed the Jabberwocky and saved Narnia. Whatever.

Protecting your unbelief with jibberish, are you?

It's easier to ask, "What would be the point?", than it is to accept an answer, isn't it?

 

[lasthero]

Protecting your unbelief with jibberish, are you?

It's easier to ask, "What's the point?", than it is to accept an answer, isn't it?

Hey.

AV.

Who has two thumbs and doesn't care?

It's me! d0_0b

 

[AV1611VET]

Hey.

AV.

Who has two thumbs and doesn't care?

It's me! d0_0b

You cared enough to ask?

Do you care enough to accept an answer?

 

[lasthero]

You cared enough to ask?

Do you care enough to accept an answer?

 

[EternalDragon]

So? They're both in the past. That's basically what the argument boils down to - you weren't there, so you can't know. Well, sorry, you can know, even if you were there. And yes, the farther back an event is, the harder it is to know about it. So what? Hard isn't impossible. It's just hard.

You've been here just as long as I have, you know who they are.

But the pattern doesn't fit, and if you'd answer the question I posed instead of ignoring it, that would show.

You state that Adam was built with certain features of age that he needed to function, but not all indicators of age are required for human beings to functions. Human beings - especially Adam - don't need fingerprints. They develop in the womb. Human beings don't need belly buttons. They form when the umbilical cord is cut. Human beings don't need scars from accidents. Human beings don't need worn down teeth. Human beings don't need worn fingernails.

These and other things are the result of human beings aging naturally, but they're not required for a human being to live, they're just the result of living. So if we compared a human that was made instantly to one who lived naturally, we would expect the latter to have these features while the former didn't, unless the person who created the former gave him all these things not because he needed them for function, but because he wanted whoever was examining the former to get the impression that the being had lived and done things he hadn't. A deception.

By that same token, we see features on the Earth and the universe that indicate an old age, but aren't required for life to survive in the least.

Excuse me but I think fingerprints serve a function. YOU expect a newly formed human to not have those features. The fact is that no one knows what features Adam had or whether he needed those features to be able to pass them onto offspring. So really, there is no need to keep asking about Adam. He is not here to be examined.

Are you saying that elements are not needed for survival and that there can be any levels of them in the earth, in the moon or on other planets and that won't effect anyone any differently?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

These nebula serve as a testimony of stars that were destroyed during the insurrection, when ⅓ of the angels rebelled and chose to follow Lucifer.

God destroyed their dwelling places (stars) and eventually consigned many of them to chains of darkness.

Prior to the Fall, the universe was pervaded by Shekinah energy.

After the Fall, God withdrew this energy and left "quantum foam" in its place, where the speed of light is much slower.

Imagine you are a "friendly angel," but considering moving over to Satan's side.

You see your "cohorts'" houses (nebula), burned-out shells that used to be their homes; and decide against it.

Or look at it this way:

You consider rebelling against your king.

He takes you on a tour around his empire, showing you smouldering homes of those who rebelled in the past.

Its amazing what people will add to the bible in order to preserve their view of it. Such an imagination could easily find a way to reconcile the biblical narrative with the findings of science, one wonders why the imagination isn't harnessed in favor of what has been verified instead of against what has been verified.

Its not about making one's viewpoint align with reality. It's about circling the wagons and fighting off the outsiders.

 

[lasthero]

Excuse me but I think fingerprints serve a function.

See, what you were supposed to do after this was say what that function would be. You didn't do that.

The fact is that no one knows what features Adam had or whether he needed those features to be able to pass them onto offspring.

We know how fingerprints and bellybuttons are made. They're not genetic. They're basically similar to scars. If Adam has a bellybutton or fingerprints, he might as well have scars from falls that he never took.

So really, there is no need to keep asking about Adam.

As I recall, you're the one who keeps bringing him up.

Are you saying that elements are not needed for survival and that there can be any levels of them in the earth, in the moon or on other planets and that won't effect anyone any differently?

To an extent, yes. Would it make any difference to anything if asteroids showed what age they actually? Is there any reason they keep returning the age we would expect them to have if they developed the way scientists accept they developed? Come to think of, why is there an asteroid belt at all?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

See, what you were supposed to do after this was say what that function would be. You didn't do that.. . .

Oh, I'll tell you the benefit of fingerprints.

The pores in the skin are at the tops of the ridges of the fingerprints, not down in the valleys.

You touch something, get something smeared on your fingers . . .

You wipe your hands. The yucky stuff is wiped off the tops, and pushed into the ridges. Clearing off the pores!

Fingerprints help the pores of the skin of the fingers to remain open.

You can experiment and observe the process with a good strong magnifying glass.

I once read that some monkeys with grasping tails actually grow fingerprints (tailprints?) on their tails!

 

[lasthero]

Oh, I'll tell you the benefit of fingerprints.

The pores in the skin are at the tops of the ridges of the fingerprints, not down in the valleys.

You touch something, get something smeared on your fingers . . .

You wipe your hands. The yucky stuff is wiped off the tops, and pushed into the ridges. Clearing off the pores!

Fingerprints help the pores of the skin of the fingers to remain open.

You can experiment and observe the process with a good strong magnifying glass.

I once read that some monkeys with grasping tails actually grow fingerprints (tailprints?) on their tails!

Interesting. I'll concede that point, then. However, there are still numerous features that a human who's lived twenty years would have that wouldn't be needed on the body of a newly created human. The shape of fingers for instance, worn teeth from eating twenty years, scar tissue, the bellybutton, et cetera...

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Interesting. I'll concede that point, then. However, there are still numerous features that a human who's lived twenty years would have that wouldn't be needed on the body of a newly created human. The shape of fingers for instance, worn teeth from eating twenty years, scar tissue, the bellybutton, et cetera...

Well yes, but we don't actually know what Adam's body looked like. We do have, however, the scars on the earth that betray events from way before 6000 years ago. Such as the Hawaiian island chain, created from a single volcano that kept poking up islands into the continental plate that was moving over it, at inches per year. One can view that chain on Google Earth, and the seamounts where islands have been worn down to below the surface of the ocean going on and on and on . . .

 

[lasthero]

Well yes, but we don't actually know what Adam's body looked like.

I agree, which is why it kind of baffles me that he keeps getting tossed out as an example. It's like I'm not allowed to make statements of what his body was like, but ED is. For reasons.

e do have, however, the scars on the earth that betray events from way before 6000 years ago. Such as the Hawaiian island chain, created from a single volcano that kept poking up islands into the continental plate that was moving over it, at inches per year. One can view that chain on Google Earth, and the seamounts where islands have been worn down to below the surface of the ocean going on and on and on . . .

Wow, that's a little creepy, I was going to bring those up.

Adding on to what you say here...

The islands further from the hotspot returned the oldest ages, and have the most erosion. There's no reason for it to be like that if they were made in a relatively short amount of time.

 

[driewerf]

All our fossils and rocks do not come with age tags. The ages are assumed. Also, all the fossils, coal and oil were formed from being buried by the recent flood. (burial, heat and pressure).

There was a question of where in Genesis it states the earth is only around 6000 years old. We have a complete genealogy in Genesis from Adam to Noah and then from Noah to Jesus. We can trace Jesus right back to Adam and it is around 6000 years.

And the "embedded age" isn't exclusively an AV idea. Any born again Christians I know plainly realize that the earth, plants, animals, sun, moon and Adam were all created mature and ready for life in 6 literal days. That would require creating something with apparent age. Adam could walk, talk and tend the garden. Even name the animals. No parents taught him those things. They were "embedded".

I need to leave for work in a few moments, but I want to respond to this later.