Emasculation

[AlexeiKaramazov]

What I'm really trying to explore is this concept of men feeling everything is a threat or challenge to their masculinity.

Why, in other words, does humiliation = emasculation for men.

Who are these men you refer to who equate any kind of humiliation with emasculation? As far as I can tell, there isn't anyone here who has expressed such an attitude. I think your search would prove more fruitful if you posed your questions to whose who actually hold the views that you wish to challenge.

 

[Niels]

I mentioned it in order to open discussion and get other people's input.

Do you agree with the sentiments echoed in the OP? Asking people *why* they feel a certain way is quite different than asking them *if* they feel a certain way. The former contains a hidden statement, whereas the latter doesn't. If I were to start a thread asking why women worry about their elbows, it would imply that I think women worry about their elbows.

 

[Tamara224]

It doesn't. Not for me, anyway. Humiliation is different.

The answer to your question may be found in asking gay men and looking at specific relationships they've had with significant women in their lives.

The few gay men I've talked to didn't have issues with women. They had issues with their fathers.

One in particular.... he hates his father and he himself traces the beginning of his homosexuality to that relationship.

I dunno... maybe some gay men are gay because they've been scared off of women. I can see how a defective relationship with the mother might cause a man to hate women and spurn their companionship in favor of the same sex.

But it seems more plausible to say that they have a lack of a good male bond in their lives and that's why they're seeking to fill that void with male companionship.

Same reason that promiscuous women are that way - looking to fill the "daddy" hole.

Obviously, that's not comprehensive and doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of all the issues involved in homosexuality. And, again, it should be obvious that it's JMHO.

 

[Tamara224]

Do you agree with the sentiments echoed in the OP?

I wrote the OP.

Asking people *why* they feel a certain way is quite different than asking them *if* they feel a certain way. The former contains a hidden statement, whereas the latter doesn't. If I were to start a thread asking why women worry about their elbows, it would imply that I think women worry about their elbows.

I know that many men feel that way. I'm not interested in finding out which specific men on this forum have those kinds of feelings.

I'm interested in exploring and discussing the reasons people think other people feel a certain way.

Men have better insight into the minds of other men than I do. So I ask them to provide it if they want to.

People should be mature enough to know that if the shoe doesn't fit they don't need to get all huffy and insulted, they simply don't have to try to put the shoe on.

And if it just so happens that a guy recognizes himself in the OP, then maybe he will be the better for having stopped to think it through and ask himself why. There's nothing wrong with a little self-discovery every once in a while.

 

[Tamara224]

Who are these men you refer to who equate any kind of humiliation with emasculation? As far as I can tell, there isn't anyone here who has expressed such an attitude. I think your search would prove more fruitful if you posed your questions to whose who actually hold the views that you wish to challenge.

As I've already said in this thread, I am not speaking about the men here at CF.

I think that it's perfectly acceptable to pose a question regarding an aspect of our society for discussion (on a discussion board, no less) in which everyone can offer their own insights based on their knowledge, experience, observations and education.

If you do not feel inclined to participate in this discussion, then no one will try to force you.

 

[NewCreature13]

these guys are just insecure

 

[white dove]

No one, men or women, likes it when their pride has been smashed or when they are humiliated in front of others, especially if that humiliation has some percieved "gain" to the humiliator (be it male or female).

Now if you're talking about in RELATIONSHIPS - well - who likes, man or woman, to be discouraged? Who likes to be made to feel unworthy or unwanted or second rate? I've seen some emasculated men in relationships with their women - it is typically by some very headstrong and strongwilled woman who enjoys making them feel bad about themselves with put downs, comparisons etc - and has found a way to do it, through the intamacy that comes when you open yourself up to one another.

Women may not be emasculated or whatever the equivalent word is for their gender, but are they not equally destroyed when a man does the same thing in a relationship? Are they not made to feel less like a worthy woman if their man is comparing them to other women, if their man is putting them down(discouraging) them, instead of building them up?

Mm.. I like the points made here. Very good.

 

[JT912]

Alright well I agree scripture doesn't say that Adam was there but it can be inferred that he was. Scripture didn't say after eating the apple Eve went, left, traveled non of those adjectives are there only it says that after she ate she gave some to her husband. Anyway and yeah society's always been patriarchal men controls society and hollywoods media my only point was to explain that women often times doubt mens ability to handle certain problems but maybe I'm the only one who thinks that. Apparently I went too far with this and we both just have very different perceptions on life and the word of God.

 

[Niels]

People should be mature enough to know that if the shoe doesn't fit they don't need to get all huffy and insulted, they simply don't have to try to put the shoe on.

I suppose that's just as well. We don't look good high heels.

 

[Tamara224]

I suppose that's just as well. We don't look good high heels.

High heels were invented by and for men. Did you know that?

 

[StarryEyes]

Hi Tamara!

1 Peter 3:7
Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

1 Timothy 3:11
In the same way, their wives are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.

Those are a couple verses that might be helpful in understanding why disrespect hurts men so much. I do have to say, obv. I'm not a man but respect is still huge to me! It's not seen real often in the world, but when it is.. it really stands out. Perhaps that's another way to witness to others, by keeping a close reign on our tongues

I admit it's still something I struggle with too.. sometimes my temper/tongue gets the best of me

Have a wonderful weekend!!

 

[AlexeiKaramazov]

As I've already said in this thread, I am not speaking about the men here at CF.

I think that it's perfectly acceptable to pose a question regarding an aspect of our society for discussion (on a discussion board, no less) in which everyone can offer their own insights based on their knowledge, experience, observations and education.

If you do not feel inclined to participate in this discussion, then no one will try to force you.

I would, except the problem is that there's very little in which to participate. The men around here don't really have much more insight into something like this than women do. If we don't hold the same attitudes, all we can do is evaluate based on the actions of others. Women are equally capable of doing this.

The fact is, I find a thread like this offensive because of its latent assertion that most men are guilty of the attitudes being mentioned. You repeatedly say "some, many", but the seriousness with which you approach the topic indicates that you think this number approaches or is actually a majority of men. If you thought it was 1 out of 10,000 acting like this, would you really care?

It's no more fair or prudent to pluck this topic out of the air for discussion than it would be to ask the question "Why do some/many women dress like hookers at clubs", or "Why do some/many women spend all their time shopping?".

Or how about, "Why do some/many women feel the need to spend most of their time ruminating on their personal laundry lists of faults exhibited by the opposite sex?". On the other hand, I'd love to have an answer to that last one...

 

[Niels]

High heels were invented by and for men. Did you know that?

Unless a guy's sporting a periwig, he should just say no.

 

[Quoth]

I rarely connect a feeling of humiliation with my genitals. For me, that analogy is equally odd, but I understand it: a man's genitals are what defines him as a man, as opposed to a eunich or a woman. A man is wired to feel like a leader, provider, warrior, or conqueror. When he is stripped of his "man card" (a euphemism for his masculine identity that has nothing to do with his genitals), something near and dear to him is lost in that moment: his pride.

Obviously, a man's genitals are one of the most personal "possessions" he has. Thus, that analogy is used in order to describe the sense of humiliation he feels: having your ego wounded can feel like a wound to your genitals.

My $0.02. Toodles!

 

[OGM]

What's up with this?
It seems to me that every time a guy feels like he's been humbled for whatever reason, he feels as though he has been castrated. And I just don't get it.

Huummmm… That would be like asking; why do Jews like to be so greedy, why do Irish people like to get drunk so much or why do Blacks like to commit crime. Those statements are all stereotypes based on the behavior of a few.

I am a man and can tell I have rarely heard any man say that. Let me answer you this way. Why do you castrate an animal? To make them more controllable of course. Throughout history many nations would publicly castrate all of the prisoners of war in front of women and children. Why? To better control them of course. But also to publicly humiliate and break them. A castrated man was considered not to be a “real man”. Why did Jack the Ripper removed the uteruses of and performed genital mutilation on his victims?

English speaking countries have always used slang words, phrases, and idioms surrounding reproductive organs. I will give you some censored examples to illustrate:
“I hate weak guys, I want a man with b*lls!
“My boyfriend always cries with someone dies, he is such a p***y”!
“That guy is soooo aggressive, he probably has a “small-one”!
“That guy is such a d**k!”
“She stole my boyfriend what a “c**t”!

A woman doesn't let you pay for her meal: You feel emasculated. Why? Were you planning on paying for the meal with sexual favors?

When a woman does not want a man to pay he may think she is putting him in the dreaded “friend zone”. Some guys use that as a sign to move-on and pursue someone else. Friend zone is the same as gay or female friend.

Maybe this is just something I, as a woman, will never understand. The relationship between men and their penises is incomprehensible to women?

[FONT=&quot]The relationship between mood/personality and menstrual cycles maybe something a man will never understand. If a woman is past the age of lactation/childbirth why would she bother to wear a prosthesis if she had a mastectomy? The answer is obvious.

[/FONT]

 

[ProAntiRevolution]

With any inter-sex competition it's all just a massive pitfall for men. If you beat a woman (I mean defeat her in a competition as opposed to pimp slapping) you're going to be disrespected for being "mean" to her. At the same time, if you don't, well to be honest I've only known a handful of women that were gracious in victory. Then of course, you can pretty much count on getting the mickey taken out of you by other men. On top of that, if you don't treat women with kid gloves you're a bad man, but if you do treat women with kid gloves then you're a sexist.

I'm reminded of the tale of Nathan Saunders. Nathan and I went to high school together and played football together. I played outside linebacker, and he was a middle linebacker. A really talented run stop guy. Our junior year was the first year the state interscholastic activities board said that girls had to be allowed to play football if they wanted. We had two come out that year, one wanted to be a kicker and the other was set on half back for some reason. So after two-a-days in the sun we get to practices in pads, and no one is really hitting the girl. So we all have to stay after practice and listen to the coaching staff chirp us out for not hitting her. A couple of days later the girl runs through a gap, basically standing straight up (a huge no-no if you're carrying a football) and Nathan let her have it just like he would have let a male running back have it. She got the wind knocked out of her, but that was about it. Still, you've got the girl's parents going nuts to the athletic director, and long story short Nathan (who should have been a starter) pretty much rides the pine all season long.

So really, where's the win for us? If we beat you then you'll whine, and if you happen to win you'll post threads on CF asking why we didn't take your gloating to your standards.

 

[Kirisutokyoo-shinja]

This is another thing I don't understand. I don't understand why or how a woman (or a couple) feels like they've "failed" if they can't have biological children. Well, I DO understand their thinking, it's just nonsensical and ridiculous to me. Take all that energy and time and money you're putting into trying to figure out what's wrong with your ovaries, and foster or adopt a precious child who is desperately in need of a family. Frankly, I'd be just fine if I were sterile. I'd be just fine if I had to have a hysterectomy. My womanliness doesn't lie in my ability to have children, it lies in my heart, mind, and spirit, as who God made me, and who I am in Him. Huzzah.

WIN!

 

[Kirisutokyoo-shinja]

Mostly blind post.

It seems to me that every time a guy feels like he's been humbled for whatever reason, he feels as though he has been castrated. And I just don't get it.

I don't seem to fit this.

A girl thinks you're stupid: You feel like she cut off your penis. Why is that? That's not where you keep your brain. An insult to your intelligence shouldn't have any relation at all to the state of your, er... 'manhood' (as the romance novelists put it).

Nor this. If I ever have a problem with someone 'being smarter than I am' - I could care less about the gender of the person who is 'smarter'. Clearly, I'm not the smartest thing around - nor should it be expected.

A woman doesn't let you pay for her meal: You feel emasculated. Why? Were you planning on paying for the meal with sexual favors?

Nope, wouldn't feel emasculated.
Was I planning on paying for the meal with sexual favors? <-- that's a potentially inflammatory statement. Oh, and no. No I was not.

A woman shows you up in front of the boss: You feel inferior and then emasculated. Why is that? Your skills at your job (unless you're a porn star) don't have anything to do with the phallus.

Nope, not emasculated BECAUSE said person who potentially 'showed me up' is a female. Not emasculated at all. If there are issues, they are related - on my behalf - to a constant drive to be the best (gender excluded).

And you are right, job skills are irrelevant to the phallus.


Isn't it interesting that there isn't any similar word for women? (At least that I can now think of - if someone has some insight on this, please share). When a woman is degraded, humiliated, shown-up, or treated as inferior she doesn't complain about feeling hysterectomied.

Strictly speaking, emasculate may be used for females as well - as weakening somebody or something: to deprive somebody or something of effectiveness, spirit, or force.

Further, to 'feel emasculated' is not to 'feel castrated' - unless one has actually been castrated. It is to feel weakened, deprived, etc <-- and emasculation in the sense you have used in the original post, has nothing to do with the phallus directly.


Maybe this is just something I, as a woman, will never understand. The relationship between men and their penises is incomprehensible to women?

I do not think this is relevant really in the way originally sought to be.

[/QUOTE]

The few times I've 'felt' emasculated or 'felt there was an attempt to make me feel emasculated' - are often simple, ridiculously immature situations.

Primary and most frequent example (I'm quite serious with this type of example) -
Say one is hanging out in a third grade classroom, interacting with the other students as a student one's self. Suddenly, without initiating, asking for, 'having it coming', and/or degrading any females in action what so ever - "Girls rule, boys drool."

Call me an idiot - things like this (as well as the opposing view that "Boys rule, girls drool" said to me that people around me were not doing much thinking... and clearly, what interest have 'you', however you are in saying such things?

I was a normal weird kid, or a weird normal kid, or whatever.

Meanwhile, the same concept of "Girls rule, boys drool" and the accompanying reversal of the nouns seems to have made it to adulthood.

It's like "I must now attempt to attack you using something that has no bearing on your person, your skills, who you are... except what God has created you to be. You're a girl so you must be inferior to me at X, Y and Z...or in everything" or "Actually not attacking you at all, just making place for myself above you... see... now don't I feel better?"

I never found this relevant to life.

None should feel nor be approached about being better or inferior due to gender.

Respect is necessary.

Respect is a genderless quality to be acquired....

and how interesting that to be a complete Christian,
so much of life is applied to the male and the female,
the men and the women.

Is it ALTOGETHER DIFFERENT for Men to 'love their wives'
and women to 'respect their husbands' (This applies of course
in non-marital contexts as well)?

Does it not seem...that the context for 'love' and 'respect' here
are words weighted with 'connotation' rather than simple definition...

hence different aspects of agape?

If we agape, the 'love and respect' is included.

Clearly it isn't about men loving and women respecting,
rather connotatively exploring mandated solutions to
aspects of Godly love that each gender for various
underlying heart issue reasons have a tendency
to forgo.

My idea has not been explained fully as I have some doubt
as to whether I'm actually capable of explaining it thoroughly
in a way that does not further complicate or confuse understanding...

though I feel the dull and semi-aching pain of incompleteness of
what might be an uplifting and encouraging idea.

 

[Kirisutokyoo-shinja]

Huummmm… That would be like asking; why do Jews like to be so greedy, why do Irish people like to get drunk so much or why do Blacks like to commit crime. Those statements are all stereotypes based on the behavior of a few.

Agreed.

 

[smacky ramone]

With a few more characters like Justin Bieber and Zac Effrom, the emasculation of the American male will be complete.